| IVOD_ID |
164749 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164749 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T09:31:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T09:47:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:16 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3d43f2f62388da51b883947b9e06cc4ad0e1721cc507f77a47ccc84a8d9a61112f53a3f22e0942d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:31:44 - 09:47:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。
【10月29日及30日兩天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 有請人事長請人事長委員長人事長早今天看到你們人總的報告說要合理調整各類人員的待遇我看了這個報告以後我心裡非常有感觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.24 |
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53.4 |
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那理由是我上個禮拜跑到谷關公務段去進行會看來請任市長看一下這個谷關公務段它所涵蓋的範圍從東勢新社然後仁愛然後和平可以說是第一個非常的偏遠第二個地勢非常的高那天我從台中高鐵站 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.491 |
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73.878 |
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坐車子到合歡山隧道總共花了兩個半小時跟我同行的同仁甚至還暈車出現了高山症的狀態當然我上去合歡山隧道會刊有另外公務上面的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.302 |
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102.622 |
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我在進行會刊的時候我就會去關心第一線同仁在那麼偏遠的地方又那麼高他們住在哪裡工作勤務會不會非常的重了解他們工作的狀況因為自己有去現場看過我才知道說第一個那裡真的蠻辛苦的因為在台灣可能綜合包括了台八線 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.922 |
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120.781 |
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然後八甲等等全部剛剛那個道路我把它全部都畫出來了他們管轄的道路範圍大概從苗栗台中南投甚至到花蓮的交界工作非常非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.05 |
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135.999 |
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在了解他們工作的內容以後我就進一步問說因為我那天上去看的是谷關公務段的同仁負責我就問他們說你們谷關公務段現在有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.165 |
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159.585 |
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他跟我說大概20個左右我說你們預算額有多少他跟我說大概40個左右我聽了嚇一大跳只有一半我第一個問題是你們一半的人做全部的事情同仁受得了嗎他給我的回答很直接留不住人 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.059 |
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181.494 |
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沒有人要一天到晚在高山上面做這麼繁重的工作那當然我自己上去講得不好意思一點我是去給他們更多的工作因為用路人有需求希望合歡山隧道裡面要裝燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個牽涉到用路人安全的問題人命關天該做的事情我還是拜託他們做但是在另外一方面我聽到他們第一線工作現場的狀況我非常的擔心我非常的擔心只有一半的人要做全部的事情這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.662 |
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233.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不是一個具有可維持性的系統這絕對不是Sustainable的一個System因此我就去調了一下你們各個公務段職員人力的狀況我發現不管是股關、埔里、信義、大武這些比較偏遠比較高的地方人事長你看一下預算原額跟現有原額其實都有相當程度的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.361 |
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255.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那代表的是什麼 代表的是說我們立法院有給這樣的預算就是有錢啦 是有錢可以去請人的那現實上啊 就沒有這麼多人那我的問題是啊 針對這樣的現象我相信人事長應該有掌握那我要請教你的是啊 那這個問題要怎麼解決繼續這樣下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
謝謝委員這個問題事實上這個問題大概最近這幾年我也親自跑了很多的地方那委員所講的這些事情我感同身受那甚至在今年跟上一年我們也特別到沒有啦 我沒有要問你的感受我的問題要怎麼解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
303.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 我們目前採取的措施是針對土木工程這一類人他留不住 我們第一個有給他額外的政治專業家籍還有專業的一些工程的獎金還有就是留任的獎金這三個 什麼時候增加的應該七月 去年去年的七月就增加 你覺得有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我覺得有一點效果可是因為整個市場的供需是效果沒有那麼我到現在啦因為你說你去年增加嘛那我今年去看結果還是這樣所以我才問你說你覺得有效果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我剛才也跟委員報告過了有效果可是效果不是很顯著所以我們今年又增加在花東地區那裡的工程人員我們有分兩級一級一個月給八千另外第二級給三千我們希望用這一種再把待遇部分再拉伸的方式來留住更多的公務同仁我這樣講好了啦因為上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.853 |
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375.744 |
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我當然上去會勘是給他們增加工作增加工作也不是為了我自己是為了所有用路的人但是我也可以體會到他們在那邊工作的繁重已經根本沒有人要去那邊上班了因為你坐一趟車上去那個感受很直接我那時候問跟我一起會勘的同仁說你每天上下班要花多少時間他說大概三個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
三個小時最少三個小時開車一個半小時上去一個半小時回來而且不是平路喔是山路在那邊轉來轉去就坐了會暈車的那一種那我想一下說哇 那每天三個小時那你為什麼不住在山上那不對啊 人家有家庭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他住在山上他的家人怎麼辦我們總是要幫人家設想所以我有答應他們要幫他們請命就是你們再去思考一下這種偏遠高山地區的地域家籍有沒有調整的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為我查了一下資料高山偏遠地區的佳績我看一下你們人種112年的報告你們針對離島的佳績是有調整過可是高山跟偏遠地區我看到你們2023年的書面報告說是上一次調整是民國100年2011年 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個報告的內容對不對還是這兩年高山偏遠地區的佳績有調整是我沒有掌握的我跟委員補充一個資訊就是針對大概有六七個縣市我們有提供一個合理化方案由整個縣市政府去評估他的location還有他用人對 你先回答我事實的問題啦因為你們上次的書面報告我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.521 |
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這些偏遠地方的加擠上一次定的標準是民國100年7月1號生效嘛過去這十幾年有調整過嗎這是偏遠加擠的部分是維持這樣可是我們有讓縣市政府多了一個 alternative另外一個現象就是一個合理化方案由這個合理化方案我舉一個很簡單的例子啦像在屏東地區屏東地區你在恆春半島的這個地方他的交通一定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
514.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我現在就直接問因為你扯到地方政府我就聽不懂啊這些公務段的人他是屬於中央政府還是地方政府公務機關中央的他也可以使用他也一併適用啊就是合理化方案啊我聽不懂你跟地方政府有這個提供合理化方案問題是他就是隸屬在中央機關啊我想會後我們送一份資料給委員參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
540.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你要送什麼資料給我參考人事長你注意聽我講一句話就好了顯然到目前為止我所收集整理出來的資料沒有錯啦偏遠地區的家具上一次調整定案是民國一百年嘛現在已經十幾年了嘛第二個我幫這一些高山偏遠地區的同仁請命實際上也有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為員額就缺在那裡嘛我為了他們實際工作的狀況我自己也在想如果是我我願意來嗎如果是其他人其他人願意來嗎你一個月給三千塊要賺到這樣這樣子真的有提供足夠的誘因嗎所以我第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
563.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
582.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
幫基層的同仁請命這件事情是不是可以請人事長人總回去再重新檢討一下第二個剛剛你說的是所謂的合理化方案你的意思是說這個合理化方案他取代了從100年以來到目前為止沒有調整的地域家籍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們就是整個待遇的制度變成更有彈性有些地方政府因為他有剛才我提了這個情況因為合理化方案就是給地方政府更多的彈性他的遊戲規則訂出來以後是否那個地區裡面的地方公務人員跟中央的地方公務人員一體適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那對阿 你的數字就編在這裡阿他最多只是極速做調整嘛沒有沒有 委員你之前說的 那是偏遠高山加急那是一個機制在那裡另外我們還有一個叫做合理化方案對啊 但我講到底啦如果你的合理化方案有用的話我們今天就不會出現這個現況我說的應該沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我覺得如果你的合理化方案有用啊我今天到那邊就不會出現這個現況嗎委員你說的 我們會再去檢討 再去調整因為最近我們也想去 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
針對這個偏遠地區還有高山地區的大意去做一個整體性的調整很好 其實我要你的我要的只有這句話啦因為我看不懂嘛從民國100年以後離島地區的有調整高山偏遠的沒有調整我就看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
688.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
理由是什麼因為你們離島的一直有調整嘛當然離島的調整我沒意見啦不要誤會說離島的不應該調整到時候陳雪生來找我算帳沒有我完全沒有這個意思離島該調整就調整但問題是說離島的從100年以後你們陸陸續續一直調整上來高山偏遠的都沒有調整都沒有調整的狀況之下就造成上面缺額很嚴重這個是我看到的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
709.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為有這個問題我看到那些同仁很辛苦我也不忍心那所以我必須要藉由質詢的時候公開的跟人事長幫他們請命100年從民國100年到現在沒有調整15年過去了啦15年過去了啦是時候重新調整檢討一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
722.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我答應委員我們會盡快來檢討這個部分OK 全部的人都聽到了下一個問題相同的狀況還不是只有一般的公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
724.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
全國教師跟偏遠地區教師代理的比例我想這個數字非常清楚代理教師他們很辛苦那代理教師不應該是一個常態我相信大家都有共識即使全國教師我們看平均的比率大概有10幾但是到偏遠地區的時候高達20% |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
甚至高達25%每四個老師有一個是代理教師 一樣偏遠地區啊 代理教師的比例非常的高衝擊學生的受教權這件事情我相信任市長不會否認吧我知道這件事情你知道這件事情嘛 那你打算怎麼解決這個部分我想我再找教育部來跟他們看看他們有什麼政策再待意調整過後面我們再予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
779.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因為在今年8月30號的時候教文的公聽會其實就有NGO的朋友說他過去是基層教師他提供一些建議跟觀察他以前在嘉義縣在符合發放資格的學校國中小只有20所 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
798.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
821.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是他們按照最新的偏遠地區學校名冊其實加以現在偏遠特偏極偏的學校總共有97所也就是其實有將近八成的學校是屬於偏遠地區可是我們卻沒有按月得到應該有的佳績來補貼這個是基層教師在立法院的公聘會所提出來的呼籲任市長有沒有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
824.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
844.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
事實上委員 這個我們上一年親自還去嘉義縣的那個廣華國小事實上是非常的偏僻啦 非常偏僻啦你還好意思說你去年有去 你去年有去人家今年一樣講一樣的事情 等於問題沒解決嘛我不是說我今年 我是說我今年有去 這是一個事實你看了之後做了什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
866.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我們有跟嘉義縣政府去提因為那個財政的部分是否地方政府要來cover這一塊那我們有請我們所以是嘉義縣政府不敢 地方政府的問題我也是地方政府的事情但是這件事要解決就是中央教育部跟地方都要做出來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
867.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
893.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 你說齁 我今天質詢完你會去找教育部談嘛 對不對那談完了以後你們的會議的記錄跟結論可不可以送一份到我辦公室來因為我很關心這件事情啊因為這不只是公務員連教師都出現這樣的狀況那我們希望偏遠地區的小孩他們的受教權也充分受保障所以你跟教育部談完了以後你們的會議結論可不可以送一份到我辦公室來 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
895.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
916.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這樣我才能確保你真的有去談 真的有結論嘛不然你一定要在我面前說說我不會啦 你面前說啦在那裡 那種我做不到了是 好 沒有關係 你們會議的記錄跟結論真的談完了以後 送一份到我辦公室來 可以嗎可以喔 好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝黃國昌委員 接下來 |