| IVOD_ID |
164708 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164708 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-27T10:24:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-27T10:41:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e3c6c6412082f24283ad8e9cdaf458b4e1e8926e407b158afa8c91b39c2ae80a84ce2c86cf23990f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:24:52 - 10:41:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金專題報告案計1案。
【10月27日、29日及30日三天一次會】） |
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好謝謝主席有請我們NCC陳代主委請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.566 |
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39.514 |
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主委好 首先還是跟你講一下我們看到的打炸的一個情況不光是我們看到的有看到特別你們臉書特別破文終於努力有成在今年1月16號特別講打炸措施建校因為你針對簡訊防堵的一個部分減少50%的簡訊則數而且表哥也做出來到底是建校還是那個笑容的校 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
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那經過了時間的考驗那我們也看到了你們的臉書出來之後我們在警政署警政署的一個資料就是說那既然見效了我覺得民眾要有感就民眾沒什麼都被騙也沒什麼財損那我坦白講那就是真的那種效果的效 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.124 |
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結果警政署在看 你看113年113年 因為你114年1月鋪的我想113年曾經在簡訊詐騙 簡訊跟你業務沒關的我沒拿出來簡訊詐騙隨之金額 警政署統計警政署簡訊統計也是很保守的一堆的黑數也沒報 大概2億多結果到了今年度1到9月 才到9月而已他的件數保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
超過一定的比例那到目前為止已經比去年一整年成長的48%到了3.19億那所以省紀部的在今年的報告就出來在中間這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.132 |
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117.411 |
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他說 我也覺得你們要去研究一下 審議報告說你的分項指標與預期目標缺乏直接的關聯你很開心 成功了 我贏了結果一二三名的不是你啊 我們在嗨什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
118.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
145.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
他說難以衡量打詐績效那不就要請教你 因為打詐2.0 綱領2.0你就負責賭詐嘛 因為是源頭的一個管理賭詐也是蠻重要的我講數位部啊 有些是在源頭嘛那你這個的部分 你覺得有沒有什麼在審計部的一個說法之下你有沒有一個更具體的指標你不能說 檢驗金減50%就嗨起來了你自己的想法是怎麼樣看到審計部這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
163.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
柯委員報告這邊這張圖的右邊他是個金額那我們在打在指揮中心大概也有一些訊息說目前每一個報案的案件涉及的一些金額其實跟過往其實那個金額都有在提高所以他的件數 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
180.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
也許是真的減少可是件數加上每一件的損失被炸的件數撐起來可能就增加那這一塊跟委員報告在我們的這個警訊設炸的數目上確實165中心提供給我們的是有在下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
182.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.543 |
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好 那就是警政署的資料不太正確不是還是審計部的報告不太正確就是項目不一樣因為其中沒有我的意見就是你們都是公家機關都是行政院下面的當然審計部說一個中間人去做這個部分我倒是覺得今天團隊都在這裡下次當然在PO文的時候我有努力會有一定的成果這是一個指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
206.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
221.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是 你到底有沒有見效果我希望你們能夠綜合評估 好不好好 沒問題能夠再想出一些更好的一個KPI那第二個呢前幾天看你們PO文嘛大概就昨天還前天嘛事實澄清啊 欸這是不是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
223.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
243.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
跟委報這是事實這是事實嗎對這是事實我寫這是事實就是有關媒體報導各級省26年敗就是事實NCC敗訴嘛NCCPO的FB是正確的這個剛剛講的我說你有PO文但我問你這是不是事實你講這事實也是對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
244.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
260.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我只是講簡單來講你們PO的那個事實是你們那一方的view去看的那你們在文字中也有寫我們確定敗訴 欺騙所以這也是事實 都是事實只是用表格呈現的方式不太一樣但是我們現在討論26個案件 裁罰案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
264.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
281.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你們現在已經確定輸了七件 我倒過來請教你在行政裁罰 你知道政府是有權力的人不管是衛生局 你做錯了什麼事情法律都在我手上 然後你來說明所有的決策都在我手上數月你還要回到我手上 你知道嗎你們是手中握有權力工具的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
281.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
302.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後你現在你們做了 按照你們所有的法規你們所有的team做出來居然有七件將近30%敗訴不知道你滿不滿意對於這樣的因為當時可能不是你啦你覺得這樣的一個品質是未來我們NCC會按照這樣的水準繼續努力下去還是需要有什麼可以檢討的空間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
303.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
324.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們行政署份各個機關都一樣都會力求這個符合公證然後也符合事實那這個是過去委員會的根據依衛廣法相關的一些來處理的那相對人當然是他有救濟的權利那法院的判決其實我們都以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
327.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
353.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 簡單來講我們之前葉委員講的各級審各審級26連敗 沒錯嘛因為七八件案子 我輸了我反正一直打 一直打 一直弄嘛那這個的部分也沒錯嘛 那現在確定以這個未查證事實啊 你們相關的處罰總共有七件敗訴 你們也有說明七件敗訴總共要還他多少錢 請說明一下七件敗訴好像是一百一百多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
355.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
379.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
三百二十萬一百多還三百多三百二十萬還了沒有都給了嗎還了一百二十萬還一百五十萬一百二十那現在其他人都已經敗訴確定了還不還不想還因為我們有跟中天聯繫他們是要連那個數貸費用一起來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
404.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好啦 那個代理主委我覺得二十六年拜 請你們不要這麼小看你們PO那個文我覺得只是凸顯你們的一個尷尬 你知道嗎 尷尬第一個你是有權利的人去做裁罰我們看包括地方政府 中央政府很多部分按照他手上拿的法規 他定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
405.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
421.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他的法規 他要用他手上的工具 加上你們每一個部分一般的人 對不對 或是說公司 你們有自己的法務處法務機構 你們有外聘律師 你們坦白講是兵強馬壯 你們做出來一個決定 我坦白講這樣的一個效度 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
422.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
446.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
明顯是有問題的我不要講說是刻意的是誤導的但是像這個能夠26連敗我覺得有兩個問題第一個26連敗為什麼民眾不能問你沒連敗你還要持續上訴一個案子有些更審三次四次每一次律師費多少請說明裁處案的中間裁處案的平均下來大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
449.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
477.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
大概12萬12萬 十幾萬所以沒事你不要問啦 假設我是開玩笑的律師要不要上訴 要要就12萬啊這到底在幹什麼啊因為你一個案子 同樣理由耶我覺得真的很low 你知道嗎你們上訴了 兵搶馬撞部隊你已經敗訴囉 不行我們再上訴 理由弄一半 兵搶馬撞NCG整個軍用 第二次敗訴 不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
500.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我看到 我不知道莫名其妙 我告訴你 人民可不可以問你當然可以 你有沒有花人民的錢我告訴你 你是私人機構 我不用問你你們錢 我的感覺就是說 沒關係啊人民的錢很好用啊 很香啊一場12萬我就繼續打啊 我管它是什麼我覺得 這真的是很離譜尤其是 這欺騙敗訴是非常高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
524.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
為什麼 因為中天的這樣的案子發生在108 109年這兩年你們有裁處的案件在108年87件裁罰的109年94件兩年總共不是中天的26件是181件其他我們剛才問那剩下150幾件呢請教也是幾件的敗訴呢還是撤銷罰款呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
526.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
552.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告 其他大部分是截廣不分 節目跟廣告不分或賣健康食品的截廣不分的那案子 那個是相對的事證明確 應該都是相對事證明確嘛 其他都沒有嘛所以這個其他 其他也是一樣 都力求證據明確我跟你講喔 對 證據確鑿嘛所以你這個敗訴就表示證據不確鑿證據不確鑿 你還要跟同樣案子 跟人家弄三四次我覺得在一個政府機關 這是蠻扯的 第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
553.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你們違反新聞事實的這個流程我真的希望你們能夠檢討未來NC再重新組合不要這樣讓人家我不知道是內部在惡搞之前還是讓人家有這種感覺我們來看一下這你們的流程不是我寫的你們給我的第一個電視新聞違反事實查證怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
571.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
600.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
五個流程 最後下一條你們寫的喔處理流程最快30天一個月嘛 合理嘛那包括什麼呢從民政申訴開始 因為民眾申訴的量很大啊搞不好都同一案件嘛 合理嘛你要濃縮嘛 要精確化嘛民眾申訴 然後開始通知電視台申訴你們就開始討論喔經過你們內部的法務處法務處長在哪裡法務處有幾位法律背景有多少人你在那邊講就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
602.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
都是法律背景 好好請坐不管是律師或相關具有律師能力的人你們在內部已經在討論了我在講什麼你們在後面的敗訴一件都很扯的原因是拜託 你們兵強馬壯從剛開始收到訊息就在討論了合不合規 要不要罰 怎麼樣你們內部就討論 討論出來的項目剔除掉九成 對不對 也會相同然後再來進入第三關發函給電視台 請問一下你申訴你的意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
634.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
660.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
之後 就進到內容諮詢委員會哇 這個太有趣了內容諮詢委員會是什麼啊他名單51個人對不對對然後是誰決定的 誰勾選的主任委員 主委勾選的好 每一次要案子組成內容諮詢委員會要勾選19個人出來19個人出來 誰勾選的也是主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
661.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
675.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我的天啊然後51個人19個人51個人不用公告周知嘛按照你們的規定是要卸任之後一個月才告訴嘛就是秘密我們新秀店都跟盧委員所講我們未來借期之後會公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
677.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他在那邊看兩年 沒有人知道發生什麼事情然後所有人都你選的我真的心裡想 你有沒有看過少年足球少年足球不是少年足球球證 旁證 主辦 協辦都是我的人 你跟我玩什麼我跟你講你後面的敗訴扯 丟人 用人民的錢你們是玩不玩 到最後敗你們真的是很丟臉你不要跟企業他輸了幾次來去比 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
706.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們從剛開始就法務處到最後資訊委員會也有一堆的律師法律人還有當然公民團體一堆嘛我沒有一件啊你選的我也不知道到現在不知道是誰啊沒有人知道是誰啊官員報告裡頭還有業者代表還有業界代表工協會代表等等好啦我要想要說的是你們全程包括最後NCC開委員會全程法律人陪同全程法務處外界的律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
736.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
757.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你們夠了沒有 你們最後決定發案給別人這是一個叫行政人員的不小心嗎跟行政有什麼關 已經經過多位律師判讀的判讀之後還被打臉 還欺騙書你們還覺得不嚴重我的天啊 我要請教一下這個51位很多法律人有些律師 職業律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
759.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
請問一下這51個人選有沒有最後作為你們最後啊這個在行政法院上訴委託12萬平均12萬的律師有還是沒有應該是沒有 沒有都沒有齁 不行嗎都迴避的 不行都迴避條款 所以不行更嚴重就表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
779.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
796.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
幾十位不同的律師然後我們居然還不斷的去輸掉我覺得這個東西你們真的要去好好檢討跟委員報告 志強委員其實除了法律代表之外也有傳播的代表所以那個法律代表只是其中之一而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
797.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
818.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我知道他提供的法律意見讓你處以決定開罰嘛那他的意見就是可罰嘛法律都已經確認就等於多組多人挺你們去做確認的那品質這麼差我是覺得未來的委員會是最後一關假設委員會再組成你們要好好去瞭解一下最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
835.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
而請教一下現在就是這個電視內容檢舉已經成案 待罰了大概已經經過了內部剛剛第四關資訊委員會審查了不管審查結果是yes no啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
836.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
854.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
待處理的案件 我們看一下目前目前第一名是三例 總共13件第二名民事五件 第三名年代五件第四名淨電事一件那我想請教一件事 當然最後是民間的民眾的申訴 這沒什麼問題因為有些比較爭議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
857.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
885.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
新聞一堆人檢舉嘛可能就像那個310個人他變成4個案件因為檢舉都類同我覺得這個沒有意見但我再請教一件事我們一直在問新任的委員NCC是一個獨立公平獨立公平能夠自己去判斷的一個每一個都說YES沒有問題那可是有些這個東西不要說我不知道你尷尬不尷尬你不覺得尷尬尷尬就別人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
887.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
903.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
112年還有112年的案子112年的委員你現在告訴我說抱歉啦因為委員缺額現在只有三位不能審嘛對不對那112年是幾位因為案件的處理到上委員會會有個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
905.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
933.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
如果上委員會的時候已經是8月1號的話 那時候已經沒有委員會議了注意一下 你們還不如你們改一下 改那個流程處理最快三年我就不會問你了嘛內容也已經寫了啊 三十天嘛現在是三年喔那時候 我覺得後面已經這個第二行的後面翁柏宗卸任是去年的12月1號經過我們修法的 這我承認嘛後面的委員不足 那都不算你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
935.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
957.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
13年有11個月有11個月是至少有4位委員7月31號前7位委員滿編到後面幾個月翁伯中還代理在嘛對不對 4位委員都可以決策所以你這種的一個情況我是真的是覺得齁你剛剛講說你們的規定最快30天然後後面3年未解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
958.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
981.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那是平均好 OK那剩下所謂超越平均的都在這裡吧你覺得這個圖這樣好看嗎你覺得這樣好看嗎112年還有五件我覺得這個東西啊因為你是接任的代理主委啦沒有說要當然你也參與你當時因為但你不是主導但我覺得這種畫面留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
983.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1001.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我告訴你 要一兩個月三個月就處理了你三年還沒有處理而且當時是委員滿編的我真的是期待啦如果NCC的委員重新再整理包括你這種不公開的51位選19位全部你一個人決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1001.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1013.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以未來主委的良心變成非常非常重要但是我坦白講我到現在還是不太相信我期待NCC會越來越獨立越來越公正謝謝謝謝委員 |