| IVOD_ID |
164562 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164562 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:50:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T11:01:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da8924cf525fff258934f1f132b5784e0483c966d97180d5d26d8280b3e7255b855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃秀芳 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:50:59 - 11:01:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
五、委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
【僅詢答】） |
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謝謝主席我們請部長要請洪部長部長好部長因為今天的這個議題是很多外送員關心的那我想請教就是說因為現在的這個外送員他可能想要這個隨時想要跑想要兼差就兼差那也不需要打卡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
就是想要兼職就兼職那未来会不会因为这个立这个专法之后那因为我们看到之前的法院的这个判例就是雇佣关系嘛那会不会我们未来立了这个专法之后会变成有了想要兼职兼差的人可能会有一些受限我们不希望发生这样的事情是所以我们会怎么做 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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刚刚委员提到当然就是在于劳动关系上面的认定就是是要认定他是雇佣还是承揽那的确雇佣还是承揽现在各方还是有不太一样的意见所以我们基本上我们会比较认为是不是我们就把外送员目前他需要得到的权益的保障比方说保险的保障比方说 |
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報酬的保障比方說契約上面的保障很明確的把它放到法裡面去保障用這個方式就好那不一定一定是直接在法裡面直接的定性他是雇佣或者是承攬對這樣子好那未來就是說因為法院之前有幾個案例他的那個判例就是說是雇佣關係嘛那未來我們這個專法例了之後會不會有一些矛盾的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
114.382 |
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因為現在法院也有不一定 |
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有不同的判決啦所以當然法院怎麼判我們還是我們必須尊重法院在個案上面的判定可是實際上面我們還是認為我們必須綜合的考慮然後思考這一整個對外送員保障的制度權益該怎麼做這樣子那部長我想請教就是說有時候外送員他因為如果是雇傭關係的話如果說以勞基法的話可能就有最低薪資嘛 |
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147.828 |
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那如果像這樣子的話就是說你覺得外送員他的最基本的薪資報酬是多少部長你覺得怎樣才是合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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當然我們作為法規的主管機關的話我們是希望他的報酬至少要有一個最低的保障那至少這最低的保障是要高於最低工資的比方說最低工資的時薪那這可能每一單不是整體而是每一單平均下來他是要超過最低工資的時薪那這比較能夠符合大家對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.537 |
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所謂薪資或者是報酬保障的概念是好那我們也希望就是說這個薪資的這個報酬的這個部分應該是要更透明化是好就是說應該要更透明化讓所有的這個外送員他在跑單的時候他可以知道就是我接多少單我大約可以這個報酬大約是多少我覺得未來我們立這個專法之後我覺得應該是這個應該也可以要求就是說這個薪資報酬應該是要更透明 |
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是因为我们其实也是希望这个报酬的计算能够让外送员比方说他自己可以他自己可以掌握比方他跑了多长跑了多长的距离所以大概可以换算成多少的报酬他对于他的劳务的提供跟报酬的取得之间他是能够预期的他是能够安排的他是能够在他更多的掌控里面的而不会变得好像他跑了 |
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一段可是到底會拿到多少報酬那個差異太大了他很難預期這個我們也不希望是這樣是好那我們當然希望就是說立這個專法之後就是保障外送員的這個權益然後那報酬的部分應該是要更透明那另外我想請教因為有時候我們在平台上面會 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
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有一些這個平台他可能會有一些免運什麼什麼譬如說一些紀念日還是什麼就是免運費或者是有折扣有折扣或免運費那有時候這個部分可能會加租在這個外送員的 |
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这个报酬里面也许你在跑这个单的时候或者这一段时间这几天在跑单的时候就会因为我们这个平台有做这样的一个活动那你的报酬可能也会有一些影响那我想请教就是说像类似这样平台在做活动或优惠的这个期间是不是也可以保障就是说这些外送员他的权益是不会受到他们平台自己本身在做活动然后受到影响 |
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其实现在刚刚委员讲的部分在在交货指引上面其实我们的指引在我们的指引上面其实就有规定了那也就是说这个平台的促销不应该是变成是外送人在承担承担这个所谓的优惠或者是什么的不应该是外送人来负担那所以这是为什么我们希望是整体性的考虑他的整整体性的报酬因为 |
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外送平台他可能會有很多這個費那個費這個名目那個名目其實不容易對他每一個部分都但是整體性的報酬要有一個基本的保障為什麼這也是為什麼我們從這個角度思考那我想再請教就是說部長未來現在可能是外送員可能有這樣的一個專法那未來就是Uber也是類似這樣的一個平台那未來會不會也是有這樣子的一個專法我覺得 |
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| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
各個樣態都有可能因為像現在就是說在網路譬如說你可能叫Uber也是非常方便所以未來也是有可能針對不同的樣態未來也有可能不同樣態立不同不一樣的專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.483 |
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所以我觉得部长可能你们要立这个专法之后可能也要再去想一下也许未来不一样的职业别然后不一样的这个样态也会需要立这样的一个专法有没有可能跟文说明其实文讲的是其实是直直一个核心就是说 |
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的确过去在做部会分工的时候也是考虑到那未来可能还有多少样态会怎么去做分工所以其实在相关的部会分工里面的挑战会比传统的一些业务来得多但我们其实也是考虑到确实这些新兴的经济经营的形态的确在法制方面是需要多一些的保障那也包括 |
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435.166 |
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我們過去希望用透過行政協調的方式等等方式希望能夠去促成 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.475 |
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平台跟外送員之間的很多重要的討論但我們的確在這些執行裡面也看到恐怕還是需要更進一步的保護所以我坦白說我們其實是我們部裡面的同仁很辛苦所以我們其實願意跨出這一步其實是部裡面的同仁也願意承擔了很多在這些新興的工作上面的任務這部分是 |
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部裡面的同仁是很辛苦的我剛剛講就是說新興的這種職業樣態其實會越來越多啦那我們今天立了這個專法未來可能還有其他方面的類似這樣的職業也需要立專法所以我覺得說部長因為你是照顧勞工 |
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485.04 |
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照顾劳工的这个主管机关所以我们希望就是未来这样的这个样态真的是各式各样可能要再去考虑那另外就是说我们看到新加坡有针对这个平台有通过一个平台工人法那要求平台跟平台工作者要共同负担中央公积金还有平台需要负起工商保险的责任那我们看到这个我们今天立的这个专法 |
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510.555 |
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好像讓這個平台在這個部分的責任好像減輕了許多那我們沒有就是我們沒有看到就是說有一個什麼共同負擔的公積金那也沒有這個平台負擔工商費用的一些相關的責任歸屬那我想請教就是說勞動部針對這樣的部分你們的立場到底是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.775 |
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551.844 |
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報告委員有關於那個保險的部分我們將來朝向的方向也是希望在摘保的地方看能不能給我們的外送員更多的保障那至於那個勞退提撥的部分因為可能知識體大我們還是需要多點時間聆聽各界的意見我們會來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
553.044 |
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569.274 |
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那我還是要再次提到就是說保障勞工的權益這個是我們勞動部要做的有一些如果覺得這個專法可能不足的部分應該也要還要再去想怎麼樣讓他更完善然後保障我們這些外送員的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
570.672 |
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599.651 |
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其實委員點到了一個很重要的部分就是說其實因為台灣的勞動法制那在僱傭承攬之間其實就是傳統其實在這個體系下面去做運作那的確這個法的訂定它其實是會突破了很多過去的框架那這也是這個事情對於行政部門來說很具挑戰的地方那也是為什麼行政部門內部評估這麼久會需要好一段時間來去評估的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.351 |
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614.297 |
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所以當然我們對於未來新興的樣態包括委員現在提供的這些經驗我們都願意來去做一些參考可是的確在整體的法治框架裡面有時候我們也會需要為整體的框架去做一些考慮好 謝謝 |