| IVOD_ID |
164554 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164554 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:45:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T10:59:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da0c057932b8071ce5e29853ba2d60c06d83c966d97180d5d21e9d41fe4acbdea15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:45:45 - 10:59:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席 在場的委員先進列席的政府局長 市長 官員會長工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請主席長跟財政部阮次長請主席長還有我們阮次長委員好主席長好 次長好有沒有覺得今天冷清清的是因為天氣冷還是因為下雨 您覺得呢還是因為今天我們討論的是財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.356 |
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主席長你覺得咧 如果今天我們討論一萬元怎麼領 跟誰領 怎麼花 政府還要補貼你覺得會不會情況不一樣好像不好答齁其實是這樣子啦 就像公司啊員工只要有拿到薪水 他其實他不會問他不會去關心說公司的財務啊 會計啊 怎麼調度他只關心我薪水是按時發 是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
65.843 |
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所以市長昨天財政部是不是召開各地方的財政主管來討論財政收支劃分法熱不熱烈非常熱烈非常熱烈都是管財務的人都是財政系統但是一般不是財政系統不曉得你們在搞什麼來我先問一下地方補助款不低於去年還創新高這新聞財政部去年今年昨天看的那個會是不是昨天的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
94.926 |
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100.641 |
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新聞照片你們要提行政院門的裁判法修法對不對是那這邊還提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.455 |
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126.164 |
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保障統籌分配稅款跟一般應付款不低於今年的規模就是7177億但是要怎麼樣滿足基準的財政收支短差納入財政的努力機制就是貢獻機制還要考量到基本建設需求到時分配的方法會調整回來地方政府多表認同調整回來是他們的錢會變多還變少 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.305 |
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142.035 |
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有些多當然有些會多的當然是認同少的也認同因為指標一動以後一定是因為那個是公示我們來跟兩位探討一下這是憲法裡面中央跟地方的事權劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.979 |
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兩位主席長跟次長是不是同意先討論錢怎麼分配之前先討論市權怎麼分對不對同意嗎同意就點頭或大聲說大聲說我比較聽得到是好我們來看憲法第107到110第107說哪些是中央做的對不對108 109哪些是談到是省可以交給省做或省可以交給縣市做對不對然後110是談什麼地方政府的縣市級的要做是這些是不是這樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.379 |
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202.285 |
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好 那請要一下農林農林這個是屬於中央可以交給地方去執行剛剛傳出台中疑似發現非洲豬瘟農業部緊急召開記者會但是媒體有在報導說因為今年這個農業部宣導防疫的經費被大砍所以會不會因此而在防疫宣導上有漏洞那請問一下像防疫這個事情是屬於中央的還是屬於地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
204.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.068 |
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因為中央和地方都有啦都有那中央的預算被砍了那地方那些出現漏洞那誰要負責很難講對不對不好講嘛現在還沒有調查清楚往下看來我們看看那未來如果我們現在的社福支出我們有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
252.794 |
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有福利對不對我們這裡看到的你這裡寫我們福利照顧跟社會安全340億對不對這你在報告裡面寫的這是關於115年度一般性補助款2500億當中福利照顧跟社會安全佔了340億照顧協助弱勢保留的社會福利經費406億我請教一下這可能要請教主席長哪些是這些福利照顧社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
安全是中央還是地方法有明文嗎有 這些都是屬於地方的只是都是由中央在補助等等 中央政府支出的勞保補助 健保補助是法有明文是中央出對不對對 這個部分還必須透過修法因為以前這個部分是由政府在支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
276.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.498 |
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過去是政府支出但是本來屬於地方的權責因為政府的財政中央較好所以在條文上就有指明是中央出的中央要出這個原來是省政府在出本來是省政府出的後來交給中央政府出必須要有條文明定的才是中央出如果沒有明定的那是要還是中央出嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
333.695 |
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對所以等於是說有條文明定是有勞保健保是這必須要透過修法才有辦法把事權移轉但是現在如果沒有那個主席長你太急了啦是是我是說沒有修法你當然想把這個勞保跟健保交給地方嘛是但是縱使如此該地方出的如果條文有定是中央出中央還是會出除非修法是但是如果法沒有明定的是不是就應該地方出我要問你這一句啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
356.649 |
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沒有法律明確的是不是該地方的就地方出地方制度法也有明確的規定所以我們現在的一般性補助和計畫性補助都是地方應該要出的所以從憲法的法理推論該地方執行的業務除非像勞保跟健保有法有明文規定我們中央才出法沒有明文的都應該地方出 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
357.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
374.403 |
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是不是這樣子是你太急了你一直想說連勞保健保的你都覺得應該是地方出除非修法當然修法就照法律是沒有修法的我們沒有定在法律裡面的就是照這個原理好那我們再問一下來現在健保保費法有明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
375.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.755 |
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政府負擔的都是由中央政府出對不對民眾致富的地方政府是不是幫低收入戶出了 有沒有有嘛 有地方政府出嘛70歲的長者有地方政府民眾的致富而地方政府扛起來了嘛那一天我才問你嘛那如果地方政府他連民眾致富的都有能力致富那為什麼政府致富的要中央來付呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
399.69 |
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428.805 |
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是不是這個意思所以是不是你未來覺得說應該是中央跟地方共同討論原定政府負擔的怎麼樣大家負擔去拆分 是不是這樣子所以健保的保費你是傾向未來修法要把這個部分考慮進來現在連地方政府連民眾自負額都有辦法幫忙付那政府應付額就不應該都是由中央政府出是這樣嗎 好 往下看好 那麼剛剛我們看到了來 退伏經費也是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
457.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現在退伍經費一個是退伍基金嘛中央政府有沒有負擔有有沒有 有負擔嘛那請問中央的公教人員是中央出對不對那請問地方公教人員的是誰出依規定應該地方政府來出依規定是出 實況是誰出因為它增加實況是誰代出它增加的部分是中央政府在出是嘛所以你看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
459.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
471.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
零用錢都發下去了 帳單還是老爸老媽付對不對 子女都說啊 零用錢太少了我沒有辦法生活 多給零用錢可是呢 他外面的開銷的帳單還是老爸老媽付 是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
472.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
499.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那在這種情況之下我們要怎麼調所以目前我們連公教的年金除了退伏基金之外是中央政府幫忙出而且中央政府還出到了地方的公教人員那未來有沒有可能這個部分也要分清楚說明白按照這個財力跟他們的負擔去調整也是好往下看來好剛剛講到那個李昆城委員提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
500.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
522.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
去年修了財化法 今年一算糟糕了 有345億分配不出去其中將近99.8%是屬於離島的那請問這些錢345億 是不是本來要用在地方是本來要用在地方的錢 要給地方的那是不是用在地方的身上誰來打 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
525.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
553.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
跟委員報告這是不是本來要分配給地方的錢這是因為公事分配不出去的我知道 本來要分配給他但是因為制度上的缺陷分配不出去那理論上這些錢要用在地方的人民身上是不是這樣因為他這個是本來是地方的錢對 所以用在地方的人民身上不包括這邊所說的福利照顧跟社會安全主席長包括包括嘛所以如果這筆錢用在人民的福利照顧跟社會安全你是支持的吧 主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
557.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
586.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
怎麼沒有回答呢這是要給地方的錢地方本來就要做什麼社會福利照顧跟社會安全如果拿去做福利照顧跟社會安全符不符合這筆錢他的性質是不是對嘛 符合他的性質嘛好 那往下看所以說我們來看一下假如說國民老年 老人年金對不對這是人民的福利照顧跟社會安全嘛是不是應該在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
587.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
614.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
憲法裡面中央跟地方分權這是地方政府的權責嘛 治權嘛 對不對所以這筆錢如果用在這個部分有沒有符合他的原理 魯記長這屬於地方應該負擔的話地方應該負擔的如果這筆錢用在老人年金國民的國民年金有人主張說讓他月領八千如果扣除牌幅 扣除最低的居住限制不足的補到八千 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
615.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
643.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主計總處可不可以幫忙算一下需要多少錢可不可以去算大概多少大概900億900億全年要900億對不對地方他要去付這900億好往下看那如果說產後照顧津貼有什麼好處可以坐月子兩老四老就可以省事或者說家人照顧可以減輕負擔像這種坐月子的錢算不算是人民的福利照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
645.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
673.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是 那如果有人要發這筆錢是不是也要用這一筆地方給地方的錢按照中央和地方一個分權是地方的人民就有地方好 那最後一個因為時間的關係勞退勞工的勞退是不是屬於社會安全如果我們對勞工勞退自體我們政府給一趴的獎勵你覺得這筆錢是不是也是地方來支應是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
675.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
696.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是不是合理的所以說現在財政收支劃分法地方政府的負擔能力我們要先把市權先分出來再去討論中央跟地方應分配的如果地方政府獲得更多的分配款是不是一些屬於地方做的事情地方政府要全額負擔你知不支持這樣的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
697.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
715.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好最後呢我們的結論就是這樣請主席總署針對地方政府法定應辦理事項統計現在統計出現在個別目前是中央跟地方分別負擔的實際數額原來是地方做的結果現在有中央跟地方來分別負擔把這個統計出來可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
717.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
739.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是國化會目前在進行所以這個市權的部分是國化會在負責不是 我不是說市權我是說現在去統計啦你是負責統計就好了嘛但是也必須要國化會去做分配之後我才能夠協助上面要有人告訴你哪些是中央還是地方你才能去做統計那你沒關係你把上面的誰做的先不掛你先統計出來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
740.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
765.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這些政事別哪些是當中多少中央出多少地方出你算出來我們來看看檢討上面的事權是歸誰好不好這樣懂了嗎可以喔最後請財政部針對現行財政收支劃分法地方政府以貨配的新增額度估算它對於上面這些地方應該做的事情的負擔能力可以嗎這樣了解喔夠清楚吧我們當然會配合委員的要求來做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
766.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
781.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是有一点我是不是可以补充说明一下因为这个345亿毕竟还是地方的财源所以将来假定他的分配公司修正之后那么分配给地方以后地方政府是可以统收统资的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
782.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
811.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
当然但是法是立法院定的如果立法院通过立法要求把这345亿现在分配不出去的直接用在人民的身上而且是属于地方政府的福利照顾和社会安全支出那也是立法院的事情对不对就跟着立法院通过的法做就对了是不是这样所以如果有这样的法律规定那当然就可以好谢谢好我们谢谢宗家B委员接下来我们请林世民召委那在林世民召委这个职期 |