| IVOD_ID |
164537 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164537 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:34:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T10:45:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4daba37c77a1c4352d9e29853ba2d60c06d83c966d97180d5d2c22e425c45b5ead05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:34:35 - 10:45:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席我們請陳主席長請主席長然後阮次長國庫署的陳署長陳署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.25 |
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主席長好我先問一下次長好了因為這個是昨天才開會昨天我們是第四次邀集地方政府會商統籌稅款的分配方式我剛有聽次長說是有共識的地方那當然一定也有歧異的地方歧異的地方在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.314 |
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最主要就是有關那個就是指標的那個權重的問題指標權重因為權重會直接涉及到他分配的金額比如說台北市跟這個比如像這個南部的縣市或者是嘉義縣等等他的比如指標權重就是變成說六度跟非六度之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.066 |
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大家會要求會不一樣對 就不一樣所以那一部分是大家有比較多的意見其他的大部分都已經大家大部分都能夠認同但是這個就滿大的意見了因為如果說我們要畫我們有這個新版裁判法出來的話這個其實就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.667 |
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要尋求共識裡面這個最大的差異點在這邊也可能是最後擺不平的地方那請教一下次長那在這個修財化法我剛有聽希望說在十一月底之前能夠售出來我們爭取我們現在如果要做出來是其實我覺得是溝通的問題如果是溝通那我們還會再找地方政府再來一次開會嗎還是就是 |
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101.241 |
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再開到昨天就差不多了我們是這樣子就是說如果可以的話當然我們不放棄跟地方政府再進一步溝通但是如果是還是同樣的溝通的結果還是一樣的話可能我們就是會按照我們就是認為最合理最公平的方式那麼做一個決定那當然這個財政部認為說昨天有一些有共識的地方不過我看今天媒體有寫說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.648 |
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155.405 |
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行政院版的財劃法財政部挨自說自話這個我覺得應該意思就是說沒有去就是說這個沒有去做好溝通然後在溝通過程當中當然我們自己一定會有版本我們拿著我們版本來做溝通不過就像次長所講的就是說可能六都跟非六都大家對於這個指標會有不同的意見跟看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.205 |
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170.993 |
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那我再請教一下這個次長下一張我們來看一下修法前後水平分配指標的對照那譬如說像這個營利事業所得稅修法前是50%現在降到30%我現在講說就是今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.193 |
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197.085 |
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去年底通過這個才化法就是變成30%然後人口的權重增加到45%增加很多那當然會造成一些問題比如說就會變成說這個比較人口比較多的或是說營利事業所的稅稅收比較多的等等可能會造成這個越富的越富 越窮的越窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.946 |
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這是去年修法的一些問題我們再看下一張這個就是剛剛的那一張30%是營利事業所得稅等等加起來100%我想請教一下次長在討論的過程當中這就是水平分配了水平分配的行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.049 |
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245.322 |
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在這個指標裡面有做什麼樣的一些調整一定是有多有少的啦因為我剛剛聽有委員講說你增加在哪裡那一個餅就這樣子嘛一定有的有少 一定有的有增加嘛那少在哪裡 增加在哪裡我們現在是這樣因為現行的就是才通過的這個版本裡面大家委員很清楚就是說它的指標過度集中在人口跟營利稅所的額嘛佔了75%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.003 |
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252.486 |
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就是造成城鄉之間的差距所以我們就是把指標那一部分做了比較通盤的一個檢討比如說像財政努力我們就是把它分成就是盈利稅所的額還有財產稅的努力還有非稅收入三項指標你說財政努力現在佔幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們看一下那個圓餅圖好了另外基本關切比較多的就是基本建設需求基本建設需求那部分我們就分成五大項就是一個土地面積還有人口數還有工業人口我們把工業人口拉進去農林漁牧人口的結構還有就是農林漁牧的產值這五項的指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.625 |
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321.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那它比重大概是占多少現在土地面積土地面積是占多少土地面積的話占的是百分之三十占三十趴那人口指標你說你有在分你有分任一個工業人口農林營運人口是不是對就是那它比重咧比重的話人口是不是占百分之三十 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.597 |
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350.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那工業人口是佔20%那農林榆木人口是佔10%然後農林榆木產值是10%也就是說讓我們這是基本建設這方面就對了那我們希望就是說城鄉之間能夠更加的平衡而且這個比如說像土地面積像有些地方土地面積它的比如說它的種類不一樣比如說像林業用地林業用地我們那我知道那現在就是說那盈利事業所得稅現在從30%降到20% |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
357.74 |
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對 是不是 是然後那個財稅的成長率財產稅的努力現在佔多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
財政努力這個是所謂佔多少是哪一部分的佔多少就是在我剛剛這個圓餅圖裡面就是財產稅的努力那一部分就是總權重是財政努力的佔比是全部加起來財產稅努力是佔起來是一個是15%就是激增努力度 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那另外一個財產稅成長率的未續評分法這個占50%所以基本上我們是希望就是說能夠真正做到讓地方政府能夠努力去開拓它的財源好 你剛剛這個結論你再給我一下那我先請教次長如果按照你們去跟地方政府溝通的這一個版本來講的話那六度跟非六度會呈現什麼樣的跟過去財務法不一樣的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
六都是會減少稍微有一點收斂減少幅度大概多大幅度可能我這個可能還在看你再整理一下但是基本上那個方向就是說比較發達的這些那部分會稍微往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
442.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
462.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
六都會往下降就對了所以往下降不一定是六都所以比較工商發達或者人口比如說像還有像哪一些稍微往下降但是屬於比較這個原來比較偏鄉的那一部分會因為它收支差短會比較大所以慢慢的它就會拉上來我們希望做到做到就是能夠公平合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
462.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為財化法上基本的原則就是條基因序這個我知道 這個原則我知道啦那我立刻說大家在爭執的在炒地方立刻說那我本來可能拿得比較多現在變拿得比較少了所以這個問題就在這裡但是也有本來拿得比較少變拿得比較多了有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有本來拿得比較少 現在變得拿得比較多的有吧 不可能全部大家都減少吧因為如果大家都減少的話那大家就說那中央錢又拿走了 這樣也不合理所以一定有的有減少那一定也有增加嘛 對不對那增加的多不多咧 增加的限制多不多咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
增加的啦增加的怎么样现世多不多现在还没有因为还整个那个最后的那个权重还没有确定你不能修出来这个法就是说让这一个原本这个增加的减少那他们一定会有怨言但是原本减少的如果增加了那他们也会觉得说那这样子对他们有利那我觉得你就是要去做一个平衡那你如果全部都减少的话那当然这个法一定过不了的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
534.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是我跟委員報告我們還有一個財源保障機制也就是剛才我們主計長一直講的只增不減每一個縣市雖然是說我們現在因為現在是分別太不平均了我們雖然有些縣市把它降下來但是還是比過去還是增不減最後一定會增加的因為我們統籌分配的款最後現在是八千多億了對不對增加快一倍所以一定會增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
560.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
還是會增加所以我們還是保障只升不減而且我們還有一個財源保障機制就不低於那個基準的原來分配的財源有一個保障的機制我這個跟次長講就是說你如果要送這個財務法出來你要去說服 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
596.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
說服就是說這個原本如果比較富裕的他們所減少的希望說能夠均衡其他拿了比較少的縣市那所以他們要增加那如果他們也沒有增加的話那當然都不會通過的嘛好 請教一下主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
597.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席長 因為計算公式分母計算公式錯了現在有345億沒辦法分配那這345億沒辦法分配的話那現在怎麼解決呢因為這個是行政院沒辦法說沒辦法解決 隨便修法那這345億可以做其他的用途嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
622.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
646.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個部分要看修好的一個結果就是說它只能用在這個統籌分配款還是可以用在其他的用途裡面因為現在財政部這個要財政部來回答這個部分就是財政部表示這個部分它也沒辦法使用所以它只能留著它也沒辦法擅自分配是這樣所以就會新的法律有說這個部分是要怎麼分配這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
652.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我今天可不可以提出一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個一個 |