| IVOD_ID |
164515 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164515 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:06:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T10:20:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da31bbe33cf98f8d7cad42acad3a0f8ea683c966d97180d5d22b651861cc72ae2f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:06:50 - 10:20:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【10月22日及23日兩天一次會】） |
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葉宇人之委員質詢安琪主委謝謝請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.352 |
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因為我們國科會算是掌管我們科技那現在因為台灣現在科技重點是半導體嘛AI嘛我們但我們看到我們的賴清德總統啊還有我們副總統蕭美琴啊都一直在講就是說鼓勵我們台積電到美國去設廠而且不是只有台積電還包括整個產業鏈生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.291 |
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63.406 |
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那我想以主委您的這個專業您覺得如果鼓勵台積電還有生態系到美國去設廠對台灣的科技會不會有影響因為大家很擔心說會不會產生空洞化產業空洞化的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.187 |
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88.119 |
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包委 我覺得不是空洞話因為我們台積電現在在台灣的投資還持續在增加我們還持續在擴敞當中這是第一點第二點我們的研發是一定是留在台灣的先進製程的研發留在台灣那會到美國去也是因應市場的需求市場的需求就是台積電最先進的製程它重要的客戶都在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.019 |
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109.645 |
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那也是因為大家也都知道因為美國政府的要求他們自己的廠商也希望能夠在美國製造好所以你認為不會有影響就對那我來跟您請教幾個問題第一個問題是我們現在國會會有一個大南方的新矽谷的計劃然後俗稱南科四期那現在台積電已經確定要進駐了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.212 |
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118.696 |
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現在還沒有確定還沒有確定喔因為那時候看到新聞報導是說台積電要進駐而且是先進製程 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.012 |
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144.794 |
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我們現在是他有提出希望政府協助要開發園區的土地因為我剛剛提到過台電還是持續需要在台灣再投資所以政府正在努力來尋找合適的土地其中台南的沙崙是其中一個可能性我們已經經過可能性的評估已經送行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.015 |
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169.204 |
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在合定當中行政合定以後我們就會進到第二階的環評環境影響評估所以現在他有意願然後也申請了只是說現在還在環評所以你的意思是說他有意願進駐如果一切法規各方面都沒問題的話他都是確定要進駐的嗎也要看最後產業真正的需求因為環評可能還要再兩年我知道 現在他預計是投資多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.25 |
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這個投資還不一定因為也是市場一直在變化那現在有掌握他先進製程是怎麼樣的製程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
182.651 |
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203.626 |
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目前台積電在高雄南子園區兩奈米的製程我是說大南方氣鼓計畫南科四期未來台積電的這個製程從兩奈米會一直往一奈米陸續新的這個製程會陸續出現所以到時候新的園區出來以後他會用哪一個製程也是依照他 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
204.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
229.555 |
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當時市場的客戶的需求來決定所以2奈米下去還有1.8、1.6、1.4等等會一直往下走主委請教一下因為企業的投資資本就是這麼多如果因為美國的關係市場關係他去美國投資而且我們現在政府的態度是好像蠻鼓勵台積電去投資的因為我也不太知道說為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.595 |
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255.449 |
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明明就是企業企業自己決定市場但我們政府要一直宣傳說鼓勵台積電去然後生態系去讓美國再次偉大都讓我覺得說好奇怪我們的政府官員為什麼一直要讓美國再次偉大站在台灣的角度如果我們台積電資本上限就是這樣去了勢必會影響到國內的投資當然你會講說還是會有投資但他可能投資更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.489 |
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280.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
原本可能投資更多嘛因為去了所以投資少一點其實對台灣來講不管是在產業的發展各方面一定會有影響所以我們那個卓榮泰院長講說不會有影響因為山在台灣台灣就是山沒有人移得走啦我不知道這句話是什麼突發奇想想出來的山不會整座移走啦但是只要一座山的幾個山頭我覺得都是會對台灣影響嘛那你認為這個對台灣來說是好的發展嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.932 |
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307.684 |
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包括我個人 我認為是好的發展在政府的態度也是這個樣子原因是這樣 我剛剛已經報告過說第一 我們研發是留在台灣第二 台積電在台灣的投資現在的這個速度現在的速度是遠不過市場的需求市場的需求是遠高於我們台灣的製造能夠應付的量它最大的客戶 最重要的客戶大部分都在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
308.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
314.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以在美国投资是符合美国的利益也符合台湾的利益所以是对双方都是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
315.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
340.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那再來我就是這個南科沙原生態園區提醒一件事情因為現在那個企業都很強調ESG那現在大南方新矽谷的計畫裡面因為裡面有一些保育類的動物比如說草蕭那你們是有規劃18公頃的地做生態區不過這個部分就提醒一下這個這一塊因為當地還是會有出現一些可能會對生態破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
342.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
363.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
希望你们可以注意企业发展跟生态发展的兼顾谢谢文建这一点我们非常重视其实我们从去年开始就已经紧密的在做生态的调查也跟所有的生态保育的团体也做过沟通特别是在南部地区南部地区不是只有沙伦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
388.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
從雲嘉南到屏東都有草銷的棲息跟密實地這些我們整個林保署農業部的林保署也花很大力氣跟國會在合作當中怎麼樣去鼓勵我們地方政府台南市政府也投入相關的規劃保護這些我們非常重要的原生種的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的物種,能夠在我們經濟發展的需求之下,能夠也把它保護得更好,而不是放任它自生生的。謝謝主委。然後再來,因為國科會也負責能源科技嘛,看你們也有一個計畫,然後也開很多次會。我發現,我不知道,等一下可以請主委證實一下,因為我發現現在賴政府好像有點要放棄光電跟風電了啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
430.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
特別是光電這一塊像之前一直在推水庫上面有浮電的光電板後來因為光電板造成很多問題所以現在經濟部農業部居然講說只要地方政府不同意光電板就不適合感覺就變得非常消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
431.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
452.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那如果光電跟風電沒有要做的話綠電顯然就是沒有辦法達標嘛因為現在的目標是說好像2030年綠電要到30%那我就想問說如果光電風電沒有積極要推的話請問一下現在政府是要用準備要用什麼能源來補啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
454.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
報告委員,我們綠能獲得的方式,目前主力當然就是太陽光電跟離岸風電。太陽光電跟離岸風電,因為台灣自己的土地。這個我都知道,以你們科技研究的角度,你們知道政府現在準備要用什麼能源來補嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
481.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為電對產業也很重要現在正在努力要增加的綠電有包含地熱地熱其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
489.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
512.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
台灣地熱很有限,所以國會現在有研究說接下來地熱會大幅的增加嗎?我們鼓勵在學術研究當然各種可能的能源的取得,我們都鼓勵。所以地熱配合經濟部在做的一些實驗,經濟部包含中油等等。另外一個就是小水利的發電,我們只要小水利發電還牽扯到社會韌性的功能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
516.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
541.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這些東西我們都會同步去發展所以你現在沒有一個比較具體的都是說再發展再發展我們要比較具體的國會的任務是先期的學術所以現在還在學術研討就對這學術研究我們都支持甚至那感覺上就是並沒有在幾年內並沒有一個可以替代的綠能如果現在光電假設賴政府光電跟風電沒有要積極發展的話國會這邊還在做其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
544.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
570.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
小水利跟地熱的先期的學術研究那顯然就是綠電我覺得會有很大的缺口那綠電有很大的缺口現在又沒有核電嘛那就火力全開啦那火力全開又跟國歌會現在要推動的那個淨零碳排目的又背道而馳啦對 國歌會應該在這方面多建議一點那最後一點時間啦我跟你請教一下因為大家現在都很關心說為什麼現在很多教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
571.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
都沒有研究經費因為國科會明明就編那麼多錢編了那麼多錢但教授又講說沒有研究經費教授研究不是應該是國科會的重點業務嗎這個訊息是錯誤的有的教授講說媒體報導說他用微波爐在做實驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
587.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
607.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沒有這件事他說沒有經費買設備所以只好用微波爐在做實驗那國歌會一直講說我們變那麼多的錢然後真正需要錢的人又用不到那錢都花到哪裡去了是不是有把經費做最有效的運用我覺得大家在質疑這件事情那當然我們先看一些數據啦譬如說我們可以看到這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
609.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
638.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
申請件數第一個申請件數有逐漸下滑第二個當然它的核定的經費是差不多核定的經費差不多但是因為這幾年物價都上漲核定經費一直在增加每個計畫核定經費都在增加你看到2022那個報告委員數量下滑是因為我們核定多年期多年期的計畫增加了但是就個案而言所以所以現在沒有沒有那個一些學者他們沒有完全沒有了完全沒有研究經費完全沒有少 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
638.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們的研究機會是增加 沒有少 根本沒有少特定的教授如果表現不好 人家評比差的話他可能計畫被減 那完全是學術審查那謝謝諸位證實一件事情因為前幾個月在地方就常常傳說哪個教授錢被砍都是因為國民黨三預算 沒這件事嘛你講是說個別教授表現不好嘛 所以錢比較少嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
661.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
682.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我從來沒有說過我是說地方啦我是說你證實說沒有這個事嘛因為我們在地方有很多謠言啦說哪個教授又被國科會砍預算都是因為藍白三預算沒這件事嘛沒有沒有第二個齁第二個就是新聞有報導啦說主委講說才化法過關是災難啦對於研究經費會少很多我不太懂說才化法過關跟國科會有什麼關係耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
684.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
702.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為財化法要解決的是說很多年前因為精神精神之後很多事權大家沒有重新分配地方分到錢越來越少跟中央比起來收的稅收是75比25以前是60比40是因為要解決這個問題從頭到尾國科會的預算都不是編在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
707.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
715.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以學者要申請錢都是跟中央申請所以這個部分到底跟國科有什麼關係像國防預算也沒有受到影響啊也是越變越多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
716.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
743.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有關係是因為我們行政院總預算編列的時候就少了那是行政院的問題這跟財化法無關行政院重視國防國防預算就越編越多明年的總預算3兆350億比今年還多所以是行政院不重視科技這跟財化法無關不是 行政院所以主委我跟你講你回答問題要針對問題財化法要解決的是中央跟地方的稅收有些這個業務本來就不是在地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
744.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
771.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個業務本來就不是在地方可是才化法真的是影響到行政院的總預算沒有啊明年總預算三兆多耶那就是因為他還要再增加舉債才有辦法對啊 所以沒有差嘛總預算三兆多完全沒有影響還變多呢是他不重視科技嘛所以他給你砍了嘛國防他很重視所以國防預算提高我覺得主委這個部分你是要去跟行政院爭取不是去講一些無關的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
772.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
789.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
對 你就覺得我科技要多一點你跟行政院爭取行政院重視的話他就會多編他就會多編就像重視國防一樣所以不要再我覺得第一個不要再扯才化法了因為這樣子主委您是科技人 產業人你不要去講那些政治的語言這樣我覺得也會影響謝謝謝謝議員支援人質詢主委請回座 |