| IVOD_ID |
164513 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164513 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T10:05:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T10:15:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da4d2d72bbff30dd1d34f1f132b5784e0483c966d97180d5d2b61b70df70fb98815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:05:03 - 10:15:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
五、委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。
【僅詢答】） |
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SPEAKER_03 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.6 |
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好 謝謝主席 我請洪部長請洪部長蘇緯好我對你辛苦了我很佩服你 很穩 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.895 |
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49.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
很穩 不急不息不錯 來我們COVID-19就是新冠病毒全世界都封 到處封封鎖 封院 封城 封鄉所以那個時候的平台外送是全世界最火熱那我們那個時候的從業人員可能不是只有現在的15萬吧搞不好double都有 不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
61.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你也不知道嘛 多少人知道 當然啊 當然那差不多多少人 那個時候差不多多少人跟委員報告 都差不多在我們現在同期在15萬到17萬的中間那個最高峰是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.891 |
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89.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
好 那我今天有四個問題來問你四個問題 時間有限剛剛有很多委員說這個法例已經七八年 七十年都沒進度 現在恆恆開始在加強那我要問你就是我們勞動部還有我們行政院的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.935 |
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115.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們的態度其實現在很清楚我們當然我們現在是支持那我們也願意來推動外送員的權益的法制化所以你也沒有排除要頂專法沒有我們認為是可以用法制化來處理相關現在外送員非常關注的權益那其他的國家是用什麼方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.494 |
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123.985 |
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其實有用法律其實也有用相關的指引其實都有因為這個法也不好實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
这个法的应该是说确实因为外送平台的形态跟传统的工作形态是不一样的所以这个专法如果定材的话他的复杂度其实相比过去的一些劳动法规来说他的复杂度是比较高的尤其他涉及到的部会会蛮多的所以要做很好的部会分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.18 |
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165.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為比方說可能這會涉及到平台跟消費者的部分平台跟這個店家的部分那這部分的確就不一定都是勞動部可以來管轄的部分沒錯沒錯好那第二個問題就是UberEat跟Foodpanda |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.888 |
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189.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
前一陣子說要合併 後來又停下來那如果這個兩個合併我看起來一年的市場規模差不多六百億那這個會不會造成這個平台的壟斷平台的up更加嚴重 柏定後來政府沒有同意合併所以沒有同意嘛所以兩個 差不多half half 一半一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.585 |
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217.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
兩邊的比例可能要再查一下所以短期內要合併也不可能這個好事情第三個問題我們台灣現在的時薪part-time的時薪現在是190吧明年會196那我看日本的時薪part-time的時薪在都會區是230塊台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.788 |
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227.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
鄉下是兩百億所以我們已經追到日本快要追平了那你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
228.939 |
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252.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我今天好像一位老師在課題目一條條的確實這幾年在最低工資的時薪的調幅上面是蠻明顯的成長那這裡某個部分也是因為政府其實很關注比方說有很多年輕的工作族群他是用時薪的方式兼職的方式其實在進行工作所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
253.526 |
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264.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
政府也覺得提高時薪對於這些年輕的工作的族群可能打工或者是兼職其實對他們的基本的經濟生活是有幫助的所以也做了一定的條幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
265.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
291.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那明年台灣說IMF說台灣的GDP每個人會達到3萬多美金會超過韓國不過很多年輕人跟百姓都沒有感覺那你的看法是真的有那麼高還是假的還是因為我們AI晶片撐高這個假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
293.078 |
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306.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟委員說明 其實當然IMF發佈或者是這些研究機構發佈的數字當然不是假的啦這個當然有他們的專業可是我們也理解其實對於很多一般的壽星階級來說傳統產業有些不行對 一般壽星階級來說他們也會感覺到這裡面行業之間是有差異的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
314.716 |
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323.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那尤其是以勞動部的角度來說當然我們要特別關注這些邊際勞工或者是薪資比較低的族群這是我們特別需要關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
323.956 |
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352.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們傳統產業佔的百分比是蠻高的那他們的薪資事實上跟這些科技業是天壤之別所以你們的重點是要照顧這些人如果提高這些人的實質的待遇這也是為什麼我們這幾年連續十年的調整最低工資的原因其實就是因為我們需要特別關注跟幫忙政府需要特別關注跟幫忙這些薪資真的是比較低的邊際勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
353.095 |
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381.245 |
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好那第四個問題我請交通部次長也上來一下陳彥博兄我想這個法如果用專法最主要就是勞保健保還有還有就是職災再來就工時嘛那工時這個外送員他手上摩托車這樣放在摩托車上面就算上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
384.096 |
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406.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個遊覽車司機 卡車司機手放在寒冬路上上班 是不是這樣我告訴你 媒體採訪車 媒體採訪車喔樓下喔 想要抓那個 那個洪部長的什麼什麼 什麼文在你家前面 在那邊等沒什麼沒在那邊等 那個司機 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
408.308 |
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424.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那都是算公使 那都常常在糾紛所以這個都一樣所以最重要就是這個公使的界定而且平台如果是變成雇主那是會處罰的 那是有刑責的部長 還有次長怎麼回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
425.615 |
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449.18 |
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跟跟委員說明後其實因為在外送平台裡面他會有一個上限的時間就是因為這是一個數位平台的運作所以他會有上限會下限的狀態所以有很多公司我們是認為可能會是從上限的時間然後來去做計算然後跟小或者是下限用上限跟下限的部分來去做一個公司的掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
450.993 |
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477.703 |
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我很怕到時候變成這個專法上了之後這個平台受不了因為那個動不動就處罰嘛上限 工時 難界定到時候如果有爭議的話是很麻煩的那到時候會不會變成說我不要請你了你都來做part-time就好了那回到原來的part-time然後你的勞健保護領到台時你自己有一個工作你再part-time來做這個外送 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
479.549 |
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498.327 |
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很多啊 我有認識的民意代表現在其實在外送員的群體裡面其實兼職是比較大眾的所以你立這個法之後會不會回到我剛剛講的問題 會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.848 |
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521.849 |
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跟委員說沒有照顧到他們反而會衍生更多的問題跟委員說明基本上我們要如果要去處理這個法的話我覺得最基本的事情會在幾件事情上第一個比方說報酬要有基本的保障報酬要有基本保障第二個是他們現在遇到的一些權益問題我指的權益問題是指比方說停權 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
522.95 |
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542.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
比方說契約終止這些像這些權益那怎麼樣子讓外送員能夠有明確的申訴跟有效的申訴跟救濟的機制而不是只是平台一方說的算現在大家最多的抱怨跟最多的點就是在說哎這些事情好像都變成只是平台說的算那理由也不是很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
543.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
565.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我覺得可能我們要從這些角度來去在這個法裡面去做更進一步的範定那這個對他們的權益的保障主要是處理這些問題那也包括剛剛委員講到的包括商業保險或者是像職災保險對 像我們以前遊覽車的來程群說要去茉莉韓道路的地方就算上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
車上有一個人就算上班 如果人家都趕趕下去 手機 手機 駕駛材就算那個所以就變成說要請兩個司機 市長是不是這樣你們那邊車 靠車也一樣 你那時候怎麼過 現在再修復 最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
590.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
605.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
原則上這牽涉到剛才特別提到的駕駛時間或者是相關的一個工時那剛才委員特別提到說然後一個人或者是他在休息也算這個整個是屬於工作上的一個時間的規範但是就駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
608.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
遊覽車駕駛我們現在是規範遊覽車從上工到下工大概有11個小時的時間是可以做處理的所以剛才委員特別提到的說會有駕駛員有些爭議目前來講是透過這樣的機制在做處理所以11個小時內他自己調整休息是 他是駕駛的時間至於說這個11個小時裡頭是不是違反所謂工時那是另外一個認定的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
636.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
638.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以這個問題是蠻複雜的 好要研究啦我沒有預設立場 |