| IVOD_ID |
164501 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164501 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T09:39:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T09:53:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da1f12bfb8afa3dd0f82630fd8ea06a53683c966d97180d5d253aeae6a5651927f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:39:08 - 09:53:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
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麻煩司法院 有請王複密複密早安 我今天主要提的東西大概兩個區塊 第一個區塊當然是有關抗告的部分我想 我現在講一個就是我們目前已審到法案之後有一個無限抗告的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.212 |
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今天啊 檢察官我先請教複密一個最基本的一個問題檢察官案子起訴已審到法院之後那對於可不可以申請羈押起訴已審到法院以後檢察官可不可以申請羈押我們目前看法是認為請說 請說是不可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
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從結論上來說我想96台抗593已經寫得非常清楚就是檢察官起訴到法院之後其實他是不可能申請羈押但是現在實務上面一個很荒謬的事情就是他不可以申請羈押但是他卻可以抗告這是一個目前實務上的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.317 |
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那我講這幾天就是法官論壇裡面這幾人也都吵起來了就提到檢察官起訴之後到底可不可以再讓檢察官對於法官要不要押人這個事情一直不停的抗告當然我們現在看到實務上面確實有一個案子就是法官在檢察官已審到法院之後法官想要押人但檢察官不停的抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.233 |
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这个东西在论坛论坛还有人特别写提醒其他的法官同事不应厌恶这个人而判 而刑狱就是白话文说啦你不可以因为你讨厌这个人然后你就对他加以判刑这个逻辑是对的吧 傅敏是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.097 |
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但是目前我們看到一個狀況就是說檢察官起訴到法院以後照理說 卷證人都已審到法院去了但是對於法官 陳真法官到底要不要押人檢察官卻可以有無限的不同的意見我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.109 |
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我們羈押主要在法院審理的時候分兩大類第一個是我們案子送到檢察官偵查的時候的申請羈押第二種是已審到法官之後法官要不要押當然有這兩個狀況嘛法官會下裁定那第一種的話因為是在偵查中基本上我以前申請那個羈押如果萬一有遇到我幾乎很少遇到法官會不裁押啦但是如果法官不裁押我一定跟他抗告到底因為這個案子是我們在偵查中 |
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166.767 |
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可是我起訴以後到法院法官押不押我從來不會有意見但是我如果認為法官應該繼續押我一定會在我的起訴書或者是起訴的時候或者是卷證資料裡面把理由詳列的非常的清楚可以建議法官押但是如果法官不押我從來沒有為這個事情抗告過因為我很清楚以審到法院應該就是法官的權限了那這時候怎麼會讓檢察官去干涉 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.413 |
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法官要不要繼續押人所以但是現行的制度會有這個問題就是好像檢察官如果覺得法官不該押該押結果法官沒押他就不停的抗告那當然我以前也有遇過一個就是起訴之後但是這個人他另案還有涉嫌案子所以我們是用另案去申請羈押而不是就原本起訴的那個案子去抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.829 |
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253.487 |
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因為我覺得現在不是那個包青天時代真審其實是分離的我們還是要尊重法院的審理所以到院方之後應該是由法官來處理好 那我現在請教你一個問題就是法官他是不是要立一個中立的公平的法院來審判所以審判的時候必須依據的是證據請問一下 他依據的是證據還是依據外來的壓力或政治的顏色 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.537 |
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272.318 |
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我當然是依那個審判所呈現的這些證據 事證是 我也百分之百支持這個論點那法官是獨立審判還是接續檢察官的偵查法官在審判中有他的任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.787 |
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291.243 |
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對 但是不是接續偵查不是幫檢察官插屁股嘛 對不對他是依據他的獨立審判的時候認為如果他認為有必要查他會自己依據自己的想法去查而不是接曆檢察官的偵查作為蜂蜜醬對不對好 那我請問一下那現在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.267 |
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320.399 |
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貴院對於檢方起訴疑審到法院之後可以一直不停的抗告請問一下貴院對這個抗告的這個權利你們認為有沒有存在的必要委員所說的只有包含兩個一個就是說檢 疑審之後法院所做的那個裁定檢察官還能不能抗告第二個是說可不可以無限抗告OK 沒關係這兩個你都回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.089 |
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那有關於可不可以抗告因為依照我們目前那個審判的那個結構就是檢察官跟被告跟辯護人他們都還是那個當事人所以說他們可以就是就法院所做的那個裁定所那個提起就是抗告這一點我想在我們現行法體制上是這樣子那第二個至於說在那個檢察官他那個如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.154 |
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363.758 |
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法院做裁定之後被撤銷之後然後再重新做裁定檢察官可不可以那個不限次做那個抗告我想這個政策上是可以討論的就是說像這種程序中的那個事項要不要及早讓他那個確定那就是限制不管不管是檢察官有可能是其他另一兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.258 |
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383.652 |
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的這個抗告權 我想這都是可以討論的好 那我簡單的講就是我自己主張修法我想就這個部分要加以修法就是審判中檢察官不得再對羈押法院的那個羈押或交保的裁定去提抗告那因為我還是認為 真審要分離這第一個第二個 我希望回到法官獨立審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.733 |
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405.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
如果案子在侦查中我绝对支持检察官对于法官的裁定能够加以抗告但是如果已经已审到法院的时候我个人认为说这时候应该是要由法官他自己去承担所有的责任那检察官在做的他是提醒法官我资料 我资料给你我甚至可以去立庭你有什么问题我都可以跟你讲或者是我在捐赠资料那边写清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.46 |
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426.11 |
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建議繼續羈押的理由把它羅列清楚但是當我們羅列完畢之後應該是尊重法官的獨立審判權那我不知道目前司法院支不支持我這個想法有關於限制檢察官完全的抗告權這個部分我想是可以再研議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.59 |
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448.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
目前認為在研議因為我最近看到一個董保誠老師他也是寫了一篇文章也是提到說他也是想法也是跟我現在目前的想法是類似的他覺得說以審到法院之後其實不應該再給檢察官抗告的權限那當然我們從比較法的概念也可以請貴院稍微參考一下其他國家是怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.392 |
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474.032 |
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好不好 這個部分你們可以做到嗎可以 演繹的部分可以就像我們剛剛講到的那個法官論壇上面寫的那些東西其實你不能因為你討厭這個人你應該就要給他刑罰而且法官其實他應該把時間花在獨立審判上面而不是花在這個永無限制來來回回一下高院一下地院等等的這些問題上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
499.092 |
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還有一個我覺得也是要讓國人知道的重點是檢察官在偵查中申請羈押那個裁定的法官是輪值的法官但是他起訴一審到法院通常就是由陳審的法官這兩個東西不一樣在偵查中申請羈押的下裁定的法官他是輪值的他不是將來這個案子的決定者 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
514.416 |
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通常是强制处分专庭的法官对 就是由他们来处理而不是未来实体审理的法官但是以审的状况就不一样以审的状况就会有 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.057 |
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540.186 |
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那个审理的那个法官所以当我一审到法院去之后裁羁押与否是由承办的法官自己来做的时候其实那个是他的案子那个跟我们在侦查中申请羁押强制处分庭或者是轮值法官由他们来裁定羁押与否完全不一样喔因为一个人是在对将来他人的案子不一定会轮分到他嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.104 |
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对他人的案子来决定要不要押另外一个是对自己的案子来决定要不要押所以这两个东西在墙路上面我认为不能混为一谈好吗复密这部分也可以麻烦您了解那那个行政厅厅长你一定懂我在讲什么嘛这个部分也要麻烦您能够跟司法院这么说因为我还是觉得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
589.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
司法院很常講我們要尊重個案我們要尊重法官的獨立審判權但是今天陳審的法官想要放掉這個人卻因為檢察官不停的來回來回來回這樣子的抗告那這不就剝奪了他自己獨立審判的這個權利嗎所以我今天在做的並不是站對於被告或站對在檢察官那而是我要維護一個獨立審判的權限我們不能讓說一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
591.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
619.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
檢察官為什麼爭審要分離我覺得這個道理很簡單因為我以前在偵查的時候我那個心思的投入會讓我非常痛恨這個被告所以我們今天在判決的時候交給一個公正的第三人去判我想這個是現代司法制度爭審分離概念的原因早期包青天時代我自己偵查自己判所以每個被告來我偵查完之後我都超級痛恨他但是檢方容易流於過度情緒投入到那個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
619.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
646.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
會對被告非常的討厭那這時候在對被告上面可能沒有辦法再立一個很公正的立場這也是為什麼現在全世界的司法制度幾乎都走向偵審分離啦所以今天竟然是偵審分離的這個制度之下是不是我們起訴之後就是交給法官去獨立審判而不是起訴之後還讓檢察官有不停的抗告不停的抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
648.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這部分是不是請司法院這裡能夠好好的你們可不可以研議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
656.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是可以研議這一部分我們會研議那但是就是說這個論點可能同時也要考量到就是現在的審判結構是兩邊當事人的那我們限制檢查官的抗告權那對於被告他是不是如果說是他被裁定羈押的話他能不能抗告就是說你只限制一方 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
會有這樣子的問題所以我想我們這些整個問題我們都會一起研議所以你們要來研議我今天這麼說我提我的修法有我的法律上的理論依據那你提的有你的理論依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
檢察官是代表國家行使刑罰權這個我們都很能夠理解但是這個東西羈押畢竟它不等同於被告有罪所以我們對於羈押的人身自由的保障應該是最高因為很多案子羈押過到最後是判無罪那你無罪推定的概念之下我前面我既然說要求什麼東西要武器平等其實我跟你講當事人跟檢察官什麼時候武器平等過 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果你今天你要跟我講說是武器平等兩個人都在那裡都是當事人所以他們兩個武器要平等那我只能在那邊跟你說我們都是司法體系出來的檢方手上的武器跟當事人手上的武器有平等過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我只問這個問題 有平等過嗎所以 當這個狀況下本來司法系統就要去橫評對於當事人的保護以及對於檢察官事實發現的這個保障這兩東西橫評之下所以我剛剛有講如果可以的話檢察官應該在起訴的那個時間點羅列清楚建議法官繼續羈押的條件都在裡面寫得清清楚楚的甚至說我要去立庭都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
783.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
譬如說法官的羈押庭是不是可以傳喚檢察官來立庭然後當檢察官絕盡所能的告訴法官該押的理由以及當庭告訴法官該押的理由之後羈押與否的決定最終決定權應該是要尊重陳審的那位法官我覺得這才是司法獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
785.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
813.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
武器沒有從來沒有平等過檢察官可以動用所有的公部門的資源以及調閱所有的資料你我都清楚除了國安的資料檢察官比較不好調閱之外所有的資料都調得到但當事人沒有辦法尤其當事人很多時候被逼著要自證自己無罪這跟我國制度完全不符我國制度是無罪推定但是現在的制度幾乎是走向當事人要自證無罪媒體怎麼修理他的對啊所以再麻煩治療院能夠研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
814.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
842.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
大概多久內可以給我最後是多久可以給我一個你們研議的結果三個月因為還要開諮詢會可能就是我們希望有多一些的那個意見加入我可以等你們我可以更完善我可以要求更嚴謹更完善三個月好那麻煩三個月內能夠把你們的那個研究結果給我一份好 謝謝 謝謝兩位那麻煩司法院醫照務委員的指示 |