| IVOD_ID |
164498 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164498 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T09:32:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T09:43:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/615807a88c5be4da3c180308c609d573e29853ba2d60c06d83c966d97180d5d20cd442c3dfdba8065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:32:10 - 09:43:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
6.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席麻煩請財政部阮次長請阮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
32.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
市長早 根據您的報告114年度的統籌分配稅款的規模是4676億那你有沒有估算過到了年底實際上會是多少因為這是預估數 這個不是實際數 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個是按照通知分配數嘛對啊 但是以前歷年每一年到了年底的時候有剩餘的時候還會再一波嘛對對對好 那以113年來講113年你的預估數是多少我113年了統籌分配數因為113年已經結束了114年現在到10月就還有兩個多月嘛對所以你今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
估算數是4676我認為會高於4676有可能不是有可能是一定會所以我拿113年來跟你檢討你113年的數字是多少113年的數字你現在趕快提供給次長113 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
89.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
45394539是預估數嗎那實際數是多少 實際分配的數字4539那原來的預估數是多少原來原來預估數是這樣 我是不是待會再他們找到以後再來補充我就是要跟你講說其實你這個預估數是失真啦你這個預估數 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
114.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
規模少太多了像舉個例子你的報告裡面講說114年度476億元到了115年會增加到8841億所以會增加4165億不止啦因為台灣的GDP像剛剛主席長講的今年可能會增加5%那光這5%的消費稅整個國內的消費規模會增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那增加多少裡面5%的這個消費稅收會增加多少所以你這個都比原來實際要發生的數字都保守就是說如果他稅收如果繼續比那個就是比預算稅增加的話那當然出去的金額就大了今天的媒體報導我看到說昨天的媒體報導說 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
9月的這個電子產品包括AI的這個訂單是900多億美金創歷史紀錄那以前的歷史紀錄就700多億而已一口氣拉高了100多億美金這個GDP規模當然我知道你現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
就兩塊嘛M型傳產的部分因為被中國這種政府補貼然後這個沒有沒有照民主國沒有照自由世界的這個經濟方式在運作所以傳產的部分都被中國捲得很厲害全世界都一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
187.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
208.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
有的人就是不會去怪中國他就是怪自己的政府不管他是從哪個觀點來看但是我們在電子跟AI這部分不得了現在全世界成長最快的就是美國跟台灣所以GDP顯然會增加很多所以這個我想委員都很清楚不然講113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
211.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
218.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
後來第二波再播給地方政府的有多少第二波的 就是到年底年底的時候再播的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
225.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
245.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
465億啦那就是比你餘估數要多的東西嘛因為只要是時增數超過預算數的話就會有額外在撥的問題啦那因為你們的預算的收入你們把那預算的收入我講了非常多遍你們都估得很保守所以讓每一次時收數都高過預算數很多那就引起很多政治上無謂的紛擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
247.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
269.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我了解那過去這幾年的確是有這種情況不只這幾年今年也一樣今年我跟委員報告今年到目前實收數會比較少的原因是因為你因應關稅所以讓那個他可以延緩繳稅嘛然後可以那個以前的預估稅也不收了是因為這樣子所以你們這個預算的實行數才稍微落後啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
271.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
283.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
最主要他是同意他分期或者是延期繳納那一塊再補回來你們還是超過預算數這個要看到年底到目前為止不然我們來打賭 你敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
285.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
301.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個東西真的是很難因為十月十一月不然我們來打賭啊誰輸誰吃掉我想這不是打賭明明就看得到的東西讓你們財政部每次的估算都要算得這麼保守 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
302.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
328.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我不知道這個意義在哪裡你們意義說我們的徵收稅數我都已經達到百分之百所以我們的表現很好我在這邊講過非常多次了就算你們的稅收收不到百分之百稅到百分之九十八百分之九十九有誰會怪你們呢因為那是一個預估數啊那你們就寧願把它估得非常的保守然後讓實徵數來超過預算數很多就讓人家講說你看人家還稅於民還稅於民是個假議題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
330.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
356.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
全民都拿到又不是繳稅人拿到那還稅給誰啊你如果要還稅於民真正的定義誰繳還給誰對不對那不是嘛就是隨便扣一個帽子就亂講那就是因為始作俑者的原因就是我講的你們的估計都真的估得太保守你看113年度最後一波額外撥補400多億給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
357.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
385.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我相信今年114年一樣甚至還超過400多億這個數字因為今年比較特別因為還有台美關稅的問題台美關稅的問題所以現在還很難預料總統昨天已經跟你講好消息了台美關稅第一會比現在的再降第二不疊加第三關於電子產品那一部分還有更好的條件是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
387.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你現在講這個是跟總統昨天講的是你是打他的臉是不是也不是啦其實我是覺得像其實政府的努力要讓全民知道這麼努力在做然後被你看前面的資訊幫你們講的不一無是處所以我跟委員報告所以我們過去我也跟委員報告過就是說我們現在成立這個這個就是有關預算估測的小組其實他也發揮一定的功能就比如說像今年來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
414.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
423.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我覺得會不會到委員講的400多億這個其實還在未定之天但是基本上我們已經朝一定會超過4676億這一點肯定吧我剛剛跟你講的是一定會超過4676億不會不會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
458.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個目前的估測以我們目前的相關單位的估測今年是相對保守啦相對保守啦也就是說到目前為止啦就中央來講是大概減了比去年同期的話大概減了1.7%所以呢到這個下個月我就剛剛跟你講了你會少1.7的原因是你同意讓人家延緩還有分期啊你如果沒有這個東西的話你現在是超過這個90 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
超過這個一點多啊沒有錯但是他既然准他延期或分期以後我今年就不能用了嘛是啦那所以是因為你的政策同意讓他延緩繳稅嘛那我要如果這樣的話我如果可以這樣調整的話那我都故意啊我讓你今年要繳的稅明年再繳那我當然我今年就達不到啦但是我們現在就是算實際數因為主計跟財政這兩個單位對於這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
506.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我個人是認為一定要精確不然在施政上會發生很多的扭曲謝謝委員指教這一部分我們真的在努力希望能夠將來再估算得更精準另外你們現在在跟地方政府在談這個分配財政收支劃分法我認為正本清源它除了收還有支 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以資的部分要先釐清權責要先劃分清楚之後才根據資的部分誰的權責要花多少錢再來分配你千萬不要收的部分先分一分之後然後資的部分沒有釐清那給他那麼多錢我以新北市政府而言我來自新莊嘛新北市政府光統合分配稅款多了四五百億那你如果沒有跟他講要怎麼用的話那這四五百億要幹嘛拿來普發嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以跟委員報告所以我們現在就是雙管齊下第一個就檢討這個垂直分配我覺得行政院把能力拿出來啦現在已經在做了那個分配都有在做很慢啦你這個去我記得今年年初的時候跟我回答說本來的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是要今年的年終就要提出了就現在已經到了年底了你們現在還在開會還在檢討然後明年看起來今年要提都來不及了嘛那前兩天卓院長還在那邊四眼淡淡說要提出新的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
601.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
雖然你提出新的版本我認為本院不會採取因為本院現在討論事情只比力量沒有在跟你比道理的但是你仍然應該要很認真的快一點提出嘛是我跟委員報告我們現在是真的是積極在處理比如說昨天我們開會是針對是什麼針對水平分配那部分我看你昨天開會是因為今天要開這個會吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
603.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果今天沒有要開這個會你昨天會開那個會嗎我跟委員特別澄清這個跟今天的這個財委會完全是脫鉤的這個很早就決定了那個開會通知很早就發出去了好那我問你你事權的分配什麼時候能夠定案事權分配那一部分有各部會行政院也通令各部會去盤點所以我們會根據那個事權的盤點還有我們水平分配的這個方式我跟你講我現在一個很困難的地方在哪裡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
631.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
過去歷年來我新莊的學校需要的建設經費我都向中央爭取那問題今年特別困難在哪裡就是因為這個一直不定所以它到底教育部有多少裁員可以去使用變成在一個不確定的狀況很多事情都一直跌宕一直延下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
650.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
668.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以我跟委員報告就是現在就是雙管齊下現在我們積極在做那我們現在就是我們深信這一次這一次一定會在這個會期我套一句蘇貞昌院長講的話假案也好 疑案也好拖延案最不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
670.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
695.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為不定不定就什麼事情都沒有辦法定下來所以你聽懂這句話趕快提出來假案也好 疑案也好雖然本院處理事情比力量沒有在比道理會 這一次一定會提出來你們還是仍然要提出來一直拖延很多事情都沒有辦法確定下來會爭取在這個會期一定會提出來加油啦反正希望能夠提出一個合理的版本謝謝 謝謝好 我們謝謝吳秉瑞委員市長 先請 |