| IVOD_ID |
164472 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164472 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第5次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第5次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-21T11:03:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-21T11:34:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad817af50721993f6f4484e16fea9f64ed3e39e9a6cc0a6183c966d97180d5d2c13a165974515a3f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:03:26 - 11:34:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第5次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境六委員會報告審查行政院函請審議「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」案等案。（10月17日）二、10月17日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。（10月21日）） |
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1.55 |
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張宏祿委員請準備好 謝謝主席 我們請院長再請總院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.109 |
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44.284 |
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主委好 院長辛苦了第一個問題因為時間有限我們藝人 藝人 表演家散兵平船今天又有多名藝人被逮捕約談甚至上手銬我比較訝異的是 |
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46.872 |
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65.283 |
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這些人有的扶過替代役不是我做替代役也讓認為是閃兵不是跳傘的閃兵 是閃的閃兵那是不是我們在替代役的資格審查上面有漏洞 一定有 |
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67.112 |
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87.837 |
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你也不知道喔今天這個案子我是不曉得但是無論是一般的服役或是替拜役都是國民應盡的義務我認為站在國民的立場上跟國家立場上國民盡這個義務的時候應該要勇敢的承擔那執行過程當中我認為這個警察機關自有他的衡量 |
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105.055 |
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這是 我做海流案所以我看到就說我做兵 看到就說我抄現在有替代 什麼一堆大堆這是認定上 什麼不斷這個是一個妨礙兵役的那個今天是具體 那個不是逮捕那我想這個是屬於 |
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106.964 |
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131.998 |
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進行好幾波的一個妨礙兵役案件的一個偵辦像是那個王姓藝人那個已經都起訴了那我想這個是此往不可長這個服兵役是國民應盡的一個義務我想這是憲法也有規定那這個是屬於一個妨礙兵役這個是一個執行的一個方式 |
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133.347 |
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158.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
如果是逃避兵役那是嚴重啦如果你是一般的單兵的體會有什麼問題就要替代體會國民的義務這個是一樣的這個都是服兵役嘛服的類種不一樣但是站在憲法上國民應經義務的這個憲法的精神規範是一樣的這個搞清楚之後我們來辦公室來討論一下好不好 副長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個我想這個是個案的這是個案我們尊重這個整個兵役的一個制度我想這個是屬於不是我們法務部主管法規我們就是按照妨礙兵役違反妨礙兵役跟偽造文書這部分我們來做一個偵辦那我想這是個案我們也尊重檢察官的一個偵辦的一個職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 謝謝那再來就是運動部的問題運動部也成立不久 不忍苛責啦免卡 免卡 免卡剛才黃文凱問很多所以你們現在足協啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
222.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
弊端一大堆 這個我們請運動部的人到辦公室我們研究人就討論一下請委員多多支持這個事件剛好給運動部成立之後一個全新的運動部面對一個老問題啊 如何來解決我想全社會全國都在看未來運動部要大力的整頓各單項協會這是一個很好的一個起點雖然案件對我們來講蠻痛心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是利用這個案件能夠大力的整頓從此開始行政院全力支持運動部做這樣的改革好 就新的一個部會那再來我們再講天災我們請農業跟經濟部麻煩請農業部長 經濟部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
257.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我剛才就向他請教過我們天蓋農損都用我們的農業成本的百分之二十動作是我們的補助 動作是我們的農損前面他就說了 我們陳副長也有說說這要研究 這要調整 我在那裡想不通 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
273.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你的農損用你的成本的20%當作農損所以你秀出來的data都是很低那這個農業損失只有5倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
277.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
294.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
譬如說你屏東你跟我說一件一頁、兩頁那社長他的生意只剩分十頁啊那如果剛才教委員講的說他的收益一分之一一分之一一分之一的預貨包你給他補六千塊、八千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
296.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
305.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
事實上他如果好好地修繩可以修20萬至30萬所以差太多了我常常會想你這個修到這麼高是要標示什麼標示說我們損失很輕微這個不對啦你一定會說要調整一定 我有調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
313.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
328.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我先跟委員報告就是我們現在的那個天然災害救助的辦法我們會在年底因為我們每半年就會檢討一次年底的時候我們會檢討會重新修正但是我要跟委員報告一個精神天然災害救助的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
328.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
352.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
它本身是希望它盡快的復耕而且天然災害的發生了以後它不是全員當然有少部分比較嚴重會全員損毀大部分的話像果樹的話它可能第一次花被打掉第二次還會再開花所以它有不同的樣態所以我們會根據不同的樣態去設計第二個部分要跟委員報告以這次從丹納斯颱風到楊柳颱風那個花家山還不談 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
353.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
362.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們大概現金救助會發放大概65億65.5億然後實際的損失大概是4倍啦實際的整個農業損失大概4倍將近250億到300億之間這是他說的最先賺先賺20%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
369.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
386.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
一定,那個水上他的生殖是五倍嘛如果再叫市民上來收養,那不算了,不廢了但是每次秀到這麼多,都...這不是正常啦有人覺得說,怎麼沒什麼啊,水上這麼嚴重那農民都要吃土啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
387.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
405.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不過報告委員這個面對極端氣候政府當然是想大力的來協助農民但考慮到國家的財政的結構跟能力我們做這樣的方式但未來他在復耕的過程當中我們還有很多的獎勵措施還可以再協助他能夠盡快的恢復正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
409.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
413.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以杯水車薪三百萬農漁牧的農民連續受准的部分我們也會納在今年年底的修正裡面一併去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
429.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
449.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我土韌性 什麼有些都一樣但是在你講韌性韌性所以我非常的期待我們院長我會去我店間說你還在做筆記的 不錯啊農業部年底會來做合理的一個檢討跟修正我們現在說的最實際的緊張起來 這叫做緊張起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
452.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
478.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一定你可能不知道 你們都沒有這麼緊張我小時候都很緊張的這緊張起來以前是用風胎走到北的北緊張以前是用頂的 都用頂三年來現在都用阿公 女子的那也有高的跟薄的薄的一支也是 薄的一支三百二十五塊那些都我們如果高的 都要賺多少呢部長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
482.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
505.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你現在剝走 剝走什麼 你知道嗎剝走說要有有機的 要有履歷的 你才要剝走我告訴你 台獨所有農民都正常要兩分 三分沒有履歷 沒有有機 他們就燒燒的搞火花來消為主 這些人你不要剝走你算剝走 我們剝走那些大農戶那些做台湯 20公頃 30公頃的那些你剝走那些錢 你就好了 你說給你更好了要吃土 都在你吃土 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
512.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
541.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那不行啦我跟委員 你講的邏輯有點不正確我要跟委員報告就是說我們在補助的過程中也希望調整農民的一個更進步的耕作方式所以我們針對產交履歷產交履歷我們會專案輔導產交履歷是一個讓整個的產品可以追溯讓它品質更好的方式不然我們補助下去過往曾經補顧過一次結果第二年這些牙管都被拿去賣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
542.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
565.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個是很實際的問題所以我們希望說用產交履歷去做一些現在的農民 經濟 財產 都需要育苗的所在一棟是5棵30棵你再來 我也不太清楚啦我不是沒有在做所以我要跟你說的就是這些農民帶多少你要補助 你就要給他們補助不是說 交苗我們有補助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
588.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有啊 你就這麼多農民反彈高秋一四個大家都走到要死了再查一下 好不好 否定這要收農 這要都是我們要照顧的那個大農夫不需要照顧啦 他活得很好生啦再來 我們這間洋流颱風啦什麼農田損失的啦 農業損失的忙啊都漸漸有在復原啊 對不對 部長 有在復原嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
595.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為網市什麼的這個網市的部分我們現在特別是針對現在還找不到工有沒有的這些網市我們都另外提供獎勵金讓他先把他的網子透過回收場回收所以這個部分我想我們已經積極在做而且是提供八成的一個補助八成的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
636.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
農田水利署在這次丹納斯颱風整個提供了76.82億那76.82億是由地方政府提報上來的然後這個部分我們也已經地方政府已經提報計畫了然後我們會在近短的時間內核定以後就可以開始施工因為我們柏町是很認真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
668.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
各種補助的反應措施變化的這個彈性相當大又快速災難一直來這種災難是一直來誰執政都一樣啦全球氣候變遷所以我們現在一天一天在說國土任性任性 任性這真的就要用 用膽分啦這不是這樣親切公共的來 再來今天節目很多防災任性這間的我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
670.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
676.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
休旅遊、自來水,我非常感謝議長和經濟部。小溜球現在一年的企業有200萬人,在地長租人口差不多1萬人,社體人口1萬多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
688.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
708.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
原來的一個池水池是自來水的 是五千噸現在電鍋要再六成一個五千多噸這樣就要滿多噸這大家很會任性大家安心 不會欠電 又欠水所以很感謝議長 那天你就不去所以我要再說的就是這末端水口的水 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
741.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
經過車廂 經過房商在開放後來到那邊再到分櫃的收入區往北 東港 臨海那裡去來到一百公里以前水工都掛在舊的旁邊舊燈就在燈現在我們主要的水工是自己用水管橋做得不錯所以看到有在保養一百公里 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
742.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
760.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們修理區有儲水設施我是要建議 還是要請求我們的議長你幫我代言一下 檳榔這裡天氣八八風災天天天四天 天水天八天那已經是人壽的最高極限了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
761.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
787.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我跟院長包括那個社會媒體醫院都開放讓外面的人來洗澡我那邊有地下水 還有我們八軍團的來一四個又去高手那裡買水我那裡買水就買一百多萬一三天再水下來 頂頂 這都是這過去 但是我是要建議說剛才台北我那裡找地 我們去一個儲水槽我那裡有經濟部 出一下我們 習慣東 習慣東 我老婆 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
791.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們來評估看看如果適合的地方我們來評估這有需要啦 不會鞠躬勒勒躬來高壓 要躺下去就沒了水也沒人吃 所以這很重要啦所以硬硬沒問題吧我請部長來評估 因應當地的需要看這邊要克服一些其他的困難如果更多又更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
816.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
836.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們現在一整晚大家都在擦光電板上 有什麼什麼的然後我們的環境部長跟我說他跟我說水口 製紡池 水池 水庫裡面有在做環評的 寫給沒有人做 結果沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
839.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我們常常查 新加坡有在做 韓國有在做印尼也有在做 印尼喔所以 要返品啦你都沒在返品啊 路上也沒在返品河山場裡面也沒在返品 都沒在返品這樣有什麼什麼的 很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
861.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
884.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員我介紹一下 你說新加坡跟印尼跟韓國是自己做 但是政府並沒有規範是多少但是我們政府要規定幾分及格 他們是沒有規定幾分及格所以我們早就有關注到這件事情了目前全世界的標準是還沒有 但是他是自己做 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
906.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
現在我們的光電在自動式燈頭、在對面燈頭會汙染,剛才我們農業部長在裡面說沒有汙染,明明就是路上的光電板,因為有焦、曬、有什麼火,所以用清潔劑來沖、來洗,這也舒適。你說在水庫、在自動式燈頭,你都用清水來沖,自動式燈頭就沒有焦,去放曬了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
913.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
917.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
他有用高壓水或低壓水來沖洗啊 這個是允許的有嘛 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
925.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
948.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他如果要比較嚴格就是說這個清潔劑是要用分解有機的 要燒的環境部你還要好好研究他媽就說都沒有 都沒有水源區都不可以啦都不可以啦 清潔力都不可以 清水而已任何清潔劑都不行都要用清水煮而已 煮牛裡面水煮他用高壓的 高壓水噴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
949.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
969.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這樣路上會想 路上沒水所以路上要有清潔劑 一定是不是這樣說應該是這個邏輯啦 要有水體 要高壓把它裝下去就像這邊在花蓮在清高壓水槍一樣 就能夠清得出來事實上用清潔劑也不是很好如果不好的清潔劑還會傷害你的那個面板 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
971.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
994.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們就清潔劑沒辦法了包委員 那個鳥也不能說有面板沒有面板它都會掉下去東西那個其實也都會掉到水庫所以其實我們那個水庫都會經過淨水場我們有那個量測都是核污安全標準而且水質非常好 可以放心再來 我們的泵水現在要設風場在那天 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
999.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1023.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
市長 今天你有談到 市長你也有說這個地方要設風場 空間很大你今天要明確跟我說 你的態度是什麼因為他們要來抗爭 今天你們說了 他們特別要來不來所以我也在跟他們說 但是你今天跟他們說一下說這到底 如果沒有什麼條件 他想你要反對這也要做了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1024.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1046.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
報告委員 我們環評委員是非常嚴格對這個非常敏感的所以請鄉親們放心不用大老遠擺到台北來抗議我們會嚴格幫大家把關外港的環境部那樣看 環境部外面那來撥可能不太好那來騙人也不太好不需要做勞使動眾的事情所以你的看法就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1051.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1054.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
發動反風車大聯盟已經成立 我也要支持但是台東管政府就明確說 不能做 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1077.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1095.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這樣就比較安心了風車要低頻 噪音放下來不是辦法好 再來 我們農業科學園區裡面現在那三個製風池 現在已經要放光電了那機器頭都斷斷落下了 我跟你說你都沒在放頻 放火怎麼補 這樣不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1105.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1128.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們現在正在研究當中 到底多大的面積這個案子我會再去了解一下在這個敏感的地區 山坡地包括濕地等等它達到一定的面積的時候 一定的規模我認為還是要經過比較科學跟專業的依據我們才能夠說服地方這個政策的推動才會順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1130.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1144.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
現在的規定就是包括特農的部分還有環境保護區還有重要濕地野生保護區跟國家公園這個本身就要做環評的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1146.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1160.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
本來就現在的規定就是要河山場或是山坡地面積比較大河山場那裡500公頃那裡幾乎建國的時代就歸類了所以要一塊特區算什麼室內能蓋 蓋光電板現在蓋55公頃現在你那邊坡這裡 也是我們越來越多不斷我看我們還要再造一座因為你如果看到你那裡太空洞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1171.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1200.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
整個泥石流這樣流這個不是河山廠的出來口河山廠蓋的光電板是在廠區裡面絕對沒有蓋到廠外我拜託的時候 我有叫我的同事去檢查有三個原因 我說河山廠那個當然有一些開發有一些裸露的 但是它量沒有太大最主要是銀河灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1201.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1226.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那裡有一個銀河灣 因為那是外來種第二個附近有一個水利的工程希望說能夠趕快完成可以把污水化的處理那目前的這個排水不是從這個河山廠造成的這個是我們目前初步的探查那陸國安委 一定有那陸國安委 國家的山府都過了死了了啦 所以這個是很可惜啦現在葉子也大家要挖 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1229.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1254.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們的勞碧都停了 勞碧都停了例如說三寶你把他搬走了嘛 環境部是 是 我們退回了退回了喔 對 對 對這也還不完啦 這還要下去 因為他會結業而已啊現在你種平地茶 七百多公頃你現在要自己滷滷的 要再下去蓋光電 蓋五十億這樣還比較誇張的 一定我告訴你 來 下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1258.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1282.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這就是一天來播在平坑大旁邊在三明飛中央議員傳證說要在金門上面看太陽能板 光電板那是要做什麼 要把我們的祖先遮蔭那要遮蔭啊 要再遮蔭 怕死人沒辦法 金門你來看光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1284.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1308.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
在那邊燒 要去燒壩 又走到旁邊走到這裡我沒有去如果有去 差不多就說我在亂的所以這個誇張 全台灣沒有公務會蓋光電盤不是 他不會放在那個木上面他是在走道的地方有啦 有有的要蓋 這些人祖先幾百年了都住在這裡這樣不行啦 不行啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1309.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1334.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這種不宜的地方我們當初設想或開放的時候就應該把他這個不宜的地方要把它去除掉這樣才不會造成大家的不信任公務的旁邊做停車場我沒看過啦如果他只是一個建築物的上面或是一個另外空地那是可以考慮絕對不要在這個墓地上面來做任何的搭架公務旁的停車場 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1335.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1351.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
時間一萬 謝謝我們現在來講醫療任性請新出爐的部長石部長很認真我們財政部長來財政部 麻煩請財政部備詢財政部 財政部麻煩請財政部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1362.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1385.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
院長 這是88這個莫拉克風災的時候那個時候這個是我本人那個時候是用平行車在載反駕再來下一張這是用貨櫃車因為以前都遭毀遭毀車都停在二高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1388.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1402.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
路肩 然後我們用貨櫃車去把醫生拉回來都喝水喔 可能貨櫃車我就曬這醫生這樣一條一條跳下來 我一條一條跟他照那個時辰 水久 醫生這樣 熱忱就拚了很感動耶 那個廢棍車上面還有鑽耶鑽也怕喝水耶 麻痺的穿過可能腳也會軟掉喔來 下一張 但是現在嚴重耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1418.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1431.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
現在我們的重症醫師都走了大家都知道要開業 大家都知道要遵守因為這個事情 你聽我告訴你你也要做筆記 那個越來越嚴重不然 事務長要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1436.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1463.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
跟委員報告這個急重症部分當然我們一方面這個今年的健保的挹注也比較比往年多很多啦所以各醫院的點子都上來了甚至在南部啊高屏區都達到點子一塊錢那另一方面我們就調整這個支付標準把急重症的這個跟人力有關係的支付標準也都是優先調升所以今年急重症就調了四十幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1464.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1475.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那另外護理的部分我們也在調護理費我們也投入了25億這幾年真的時事部長很認真 邱部長也很認真你也很認真 很多藝術 很多費用過來撿補這是事實 但是這幾年要補補這錢都是家裡的家裡護理師 家裡醫師 放射前驗者 都一直提供但是醫生的薪資 十五年沒調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1494.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1519.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我也要替醫生講談保安會醫生為什麼大家要再走他沒有說到重點重點是在哪裡 市部長當然有一部分是因為在診所開業跟在醫院的醫師他的稅負也有落差因為在醫院裡面是屬於受僱那麼在診所裡面是執行業務所的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1520.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1544.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
兩者的說服之間也出現有一些不相稱的地方所以這個也跟委員報告我們也在研究那麼在醫院裡面的所有的這個工作人員除了這個主治醫師外他都是適用勞基法那麼只有主治醫師那麼因為業務的關係病人的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1546.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1568.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
臨時性 緊急性 持續性不同所以沒有納入勞基法美國總統川普說加班費 值班費 免稅像這個福福叫小費 也免稅現在醫生 重症的醫生在病院一班一班要死 你還要卡稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1569.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1592.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
再加上現在的醫生的稅差不多要2個位置2個包圍的全薪去納稅他一般在那裡在那裡再加稅大家也照啊 去申訴稅務可不可以淡嗎你們之前說兩個部隊要研究研究研究研究到現在到底是什麼我們的重症醫療的方法院長 總院長你現在是理想到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1598.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1609.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
你是Powerful,你一定會做到一定的事,如果沒有照料,我們在座的各位,包括你,包括我,包括我們的家人,他們要怎麼幫忙,沒有人依靠他們, |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1612.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1629.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那個也說不會喔所以醫生你一個月而已如果不這樣繼續在流失越來越嚴重我們還是要尊敬跟感謝每個醫師當他投入這個行業的時候他對自己的工作的使命都是非常崇高的但不能因為這樣變成一個不被尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1629.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1647.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那我也承認過去一段時間我們對護理人員跟相關人員的這個需求的提高做的比較多那實際上這兩天我也跟部長提到未來我們怎麼對醫師來做更多的一些在權益上面的維護那您說到了這個加班不記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1648.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1677.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
免稅的這個部分財政部應該有一個想法我們來聽財政部的說法跟委員報告目前的稅法規定如果是為了僱主的目的如果他要執行業務那麼支領的這個加班費目前如果說這個加班費沒有超過規定的標準的話他是不計入他的薪資收入來課稅的那現在問題就是組織醫師這一部分他不適用導機法那他也沒有具有公務員的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1678.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1694.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這一部分因為他的加班的時數跟他加班的這個資期的標準他目前都還沒訂出來所以這一部分可能要麻煩請這個衛福部這邊先訂出來以後我們就會根據稅法的規定那麼提供一個非常公平合理的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1695.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1701.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
加班免稅的一個規定跟財政部開過三次會議也有在這個賴會員委員也主持了兩次的協商當然剛剛陳儒財政部規範裡面提到的要有一個加班的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1722.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1742.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個規定 那個包含這個上限標準那這個我們大概也有一些共識那麼以這個80到100個小時也不能夠太高 過勞也不好但是以80到100小時間的這個加班時數來做一個上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1742.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1749.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
再來就是這個加班費如何採任的問題還在跟財政部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1773.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1783.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
過勞 所以一定要在合理的範圍當中那這個部分財政部應該會來支持這樣講來來來 陳國標這樣講 國務局也好 跟我講一下不好 尿尿看喔 不是辦法啦這真的在那裡 每個月都在跑往紅醫師 那個陳醫師 每天早上在那裡唱歌而已說他要跑 他說廢物太重 他沒辦法啊所以去診所 比較輕啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1798.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1823.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以這要怎麼讓他們做下去公家便宜 你們看公家便宜 大家蠢蠢利動那一家伴侶幾百塊啊 你是要叫我們怎麼做下去啦你有 當時全十八個月 今年你給我回答一各位 兩各位給我今年來研究好不好我們今年來研究這個方案出來 今年明年就適用了明年我們研究出來以後會有個時程再跟委員報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1824.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1831.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好感謝好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員質詢謝謝主委員長各相關部會所長備詢謝謝報告委員會在議場二樓旁聽的 |
| gazette.lineno |
594 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
蘇委員清泉：（11時3分）謝謝主席。請院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
卓院長榮泰：蘇委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長辛苦了。第一個問題，因為時間有限，藝人、表演者閃兵頻傳，今天又有多名藝人被逮捕、約談，甚至上手銬。我比較訝異的是，這些人有的有服過替代役，不是沒當兵，是替代役，卻也被認為閃兵。不是跳傘的傘兵，是「閃」的閃兵。因此，是不是我們在替代役的資格審查上有漏洞？院長也不知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
卓院長榮泰：今天這個案子我不曉得，但無論是一般的服役或替代役，都是國民應盡的義務。我認為站在國民的立場跟國家立場上，國民盡義務的時候應該要勇敢承擔，至於執行過程當中，我認為警察機關自有它的衡量。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這實在是，我是海軍陸戰隊退伍的，但我以前就傻傻的當兵、傻傻的操練，現在有替代役、什麼役的一大堆，這是認定上有什麼弊端嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這是妨害兵役案件，今天是拘提，不是逮捕，這部分已經進行了好幾波妨害兵役案件的偵辦，像王姓藝人已經都被起訴了，我想此風不可長，服兵役是國民應盡的義務，而且憲法也有規定。這個是屬於妨害兵役的一個執行方式。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，如果是逃避兵役，那是嚴重啦，如果…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這是妨害兵役。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
蘇委員清泉：如果是一般要當兵的體位有點問題，降下來變成替代役體位…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：國民的義務是一樣的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這個都是服兵役嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，服的類種不一樣，但是站在憲法上，國民應盡義務的憲法精神規範是一樣的。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這個搞清楚之後，請部長到我們辦公室來討論一下，好不好？部長，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我想這是一個個案，我們尊重…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這是個案？現在已經有七、八個了耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：那是妨害兵役制度的案件，並不是屬於我們法務部主管的法規，我們是以違反妨害兵役跟偽造文書的部分來做偵辦，我想這是一個個案，我們也尊重檢察官的偵辦職權。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
再來就是有關運動部的問題，運動部才成立不久，不忍苛責啦！部長不用上台來了，剛才洪孟楷委員已經問很多了，你們足協的弊端一大堆，對此，就請運動部的人到本席辦公室來跟我研究研究，討論一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請委員多多支持，這個事件剛好給運動部成立之後，以一個全新的運動部去面對一個老問題看看要如何來解決，我想全社會、全國都在看，未來運動部要大力的整頓各單項協會，這是一個很好的起點，雖然案件對我們來講滿痛心的，但是利用這個案件能夠大力的整頓，從此開始，行政院全力支持運動部做這樣的改革。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
蘇委員清泉：好，新的部會。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][1] |
再來我要談天災的部分，我們請農業部跟經濟部。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：麻煩請農業部長及經濟部長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，我上次就跟你請教過，我們上次農損是用農業成本的20%來補助，就是以這個來當作是農民的農損金額，上次你就有說過了，陳部長也有說過這個要研究、調整。我一直想不通，用農業成本的20%當作農損金額，所以計算來的data都很低，農業損失光是成本就要5倍了啊，比如屏東，你跟我說這次1億、2億啊，但實際上的損失光是成本就10億啊，如果照之前委員所說的，他們的收益以一分地來說，一分地的玉荷包你只補助6,000塊、8,000塊，實際上如果他若能好好收成可以收20萬至30萬，所以差太多了啦！我一直想不通，你把農損算的這麼低是要表示什麼？表示我們的損失很輕微，這個不對啦！你上次說要調整，院長，有調整嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳部長駿季：我先跟委員報告，現在的天然災害救助辦法會在年底……因為我們每半年就會檢討一次，年底的時候我們會檢討、會重新修正。但是我要跟委員報告一個精神，天然災害救助精神的本身是希望能儘快復耕，而且天然災害發生了以後，當然有少部分比較嚴重的會全園損毀，大部分的話，像果樹的部分，可能第一次的花被打掉，第二次還會再開花，所以它有不同的樣態，我們會根據不同的樣態去設計。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
第二個部分要跟委員報告，以這次從丹娜絲颱風到楊柳颱風，樺加沙颱風還不談喔，我們的現金救助費發放了大概65.5億，然後實際的損失大概是4倍啦，實際的、整個的農業損失大概是250億到300億之間。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這是他說的，是用成本去計算喔，以成本的20%去做補助，院長，實際上他們的損失是5倍嘛，如果以市面上的收益來說，那無法去算了，也沒辦法吵出個結論啦！但如果一直估算的這麼低，這也不是正常的作法啦，會讓人家覺得好像沒什麼損失，但實際上災損是非常嚴重的，農民都在吃土了！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，面對極端氣候，政府當然是想大力的來協助農民，但是我們考慮到國家的財政結構跟能力，我們是採取這樣的方式，但是未來他在復耕的過程當中，我們還有很多的獎勵措施，還可以再協助他儘快的恢復正常。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
蘇委員清泉：最重要的就是要趕快讓他復耕、讓他復原嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
蘇委員清泉：讓他趕快再去種嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳部長駿季：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
蘇委員清泉：一塊地一年只能補助一次而已耶，只有一次，沒有第二次喔，所以那個是杯水車薪，這300萬從事農漁牧的農民要給予照顧啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，有關於連續受損的部分，我們也會納入今年年底的修正裡面一併去調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
蘇委員清泉：國土韌性、什麼韌性都一樣嘛，我們一天到晚在說韌性、韌性，所以我是非常的期待。院長，我記得我上次說的時候你還作筆記，這樣很不錯啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
卓院長榮泰：農業部年底會做合理的檢討跟修正。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
蘇委員清泉：我們現在說一個最實際的，香蕉柱，這個叫做香蕉柱，院長可能不知道，你家沒有種香蕉，我小時候都是在幫忙種香蕉的。關於這個香蕉柱，以前因為怕颱風來所以會用竹子綁起來，那些竹子都是從竹山來，現在都是用錏管或鋁製的，錏管有分厚的跟薄的，薄的一根240元、厚的一根325元，但厚的一根可以用十多年。部長啊，你們現在的補助條件是什麼，你知道嗎？必須是有機的、有履歷的才要補助！我跟你說，大多數的農民都種差不多兩分地、三分地，沒有履歷，也不是有機的，他們收一收就交給「販仔」以內銷為主，這些人你不給補助；你們補助的都是那些大農戶，那些租台糖土地20公頃、30公頃的，對那些人你們補助那麼多錢，他們本來就比較有錢了，你還補助讓他們更有錢，而那些吃土的就一直吃土，這樣不行啦！部長！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員講，你講的邏輯有一點不正確，我要跟委員報告，我們在補助的過程中也希望調整農民能朝向更進步的耕作方式，所以我們是針對產銷履歷，產銷履歷我們會專案輔導，產銷履歷是讓整個產品可以追溯、讓它的品質更好的方式，不然我們補助下去，過往曾經補助過一次，結果第二年這些錏管都被拿去賣了，這個是很實際的問題，所以我們希望用產銷履歷去做…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
蘇委員清泉：現在農民的香蕉苗都是來自專門育苗的地方，一株售價25元、30元，雖然你很內行，但我的研究也很深入啊，我不是沒在跑，所以我要跟你說的是，這些農民大多數需要你們的補助，你要給他們補助啦，不是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳部長駿季：蕉苗我們有補助啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
蘇委員清泉：沒有啊！你有這麼多的限制，造成農民都反彈啊，高樹及其他地方的農民都罵得要死，請再查一下，好不好？部長，這些小農才是需要我們去照顧的，至於那些大農戶不太需要照顧啦，他們活得很好啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][1] |
再來，這次楊柳颱風造成農田損失，相關農業設施，如網子等等都漸漸在復原了嘛，對不對？部長，有在復原嗎？那些網室什麼的。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳部長駿季：有關網室的部分，我們現在特別針對還找不到工的這些網室有另外提供獎勵金，讓他先把網子透過回收場回收，這個部分我們已經積極在做，而且是提供8成的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
蘇委員清泉：8成的補助？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳部長駿季：對，8成的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
蘇委員清泉：但那些農水路都毀壞了…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳部長駿季：針對農水路的部分，農田水利署在這次丹娜絲颱風整個提供了76.82億，這76.82億是由地方政府提報上來的，這個部分地方政府已經提報計畫了，我們會在最短時間內核定以後就可以開始施工。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，陳部長是很認真啦，真的很認真…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，真的，對於各種補助的反應措施及變化的彈性相當大，而且又快速。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
蘇委員清泉：災難一直來，這種災難是一直來的，不論誰執政都一樣啦，全球氣候變遷，所以我們現在一天到晚在說國土韌性、韌性、韌性，這真的要下重本啦，不是隨便說說就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][1] |
我今天要談的題目很多，再來要談防災韌性，對於這次小琉球自來水的配水池，我很感謝院長及經濟部，小琉球現在一年的遊客超過200萬人，在地常住人口差不多1萬人，設籍人口一萬多，原來的自來水儲水池是5,000噸的，現在要再設立一個五千多噸的，剛好一萬多噸，這樣才是真正的韌性啦！大家也安心，不然以前缺電又缺水，所以，很感謝卓院長，那天你沒有去。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][2] |
我要再說的就是，牡丹水庫的水經過車城，經過枋山、枋寮一直引到林邊再分過去小琉球，然後又往北朝東港、林園那邊一直過去，長達100公里。以前水管都掛在橋的旁邊，橋斷了引水管也跟著斷，現在自來水公司自己用水管橋，做得不錯，也看到有在保養。因為長達100公里，所以我們小琉球有儲水設施。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][3] |
我要建議、請求我們的院長你答應我一下，屏南這邊上次八八風災停電停水，停電停4天、停水停8天，那已經達到忍受的最高極限了。我跟院長報告，那個時候我們醫院都開放讓外面的人來洗澡，我們那邊有地下水，還有我們八軍團的來，四處再去高樹那邊買水，我光是買水就買了一百多萬，還從山上載水下來等等。這些都過去了，但是我是建議在大鵬灣那邊找地，我們來蓋一個儲水槽。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][4] |
部長，經濟部出一點力，10萬噸、10萬噸有辦法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
龔部長明鑫：我們來評估看看，如果有適合的地方，我們來評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這個有需要啦！不然鋪了那麼長的水管來到那邊，萬一水管斷掉水就又沒了，連水也沒得喝，所以這很重要。院長，沒問題吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我請部長來評估，因應當地的需要看這邊要克服一些其他的困難…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
蘇委員清泉：如果儲水量更多還更好。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][1] |
再來，我們這陣子大家都在吵光電板吵得「霧煞煞」，昨天我們的環境部長也跟我說，他跟我說水庫、滯洪池，水池、水庫裡面有在做環評的，世界上沒有人做；結果不是，我們昨天查了，新加坡有在做、韓國有在做、印尼也有在做。印尼喔，所以要環評啦！你都沒有環評、陸上的也沒環評、核三廠裡面的也沒有環評，全都沒有環評，這樣「霧煞煞」的，這樣好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
彭部長啓明：委員，我解釋一下。你說新加坡、印尼跟韓國有環評，他是提案者自己做，但是政府並沒有一個規範是多少。就像你讀書，但是我們政府要規定幾分及格，但他們政府並沒有規定幾分及格。我們早就有關注到這件事情了，所以目前全世界的標準是還沒有，但是他是自己做。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
蘇委員清泉：現在我們的光電板放在滯洪池上面或是放在哪裡會不會污染的問題，剛才農業部長一直說沒有污染，明明就是陸上的光電板因為有鳥屎或有什麼的，所以業者用清潔劑去沖洗，這也是事實；你說在水庫、在滯洪池上面的你都用清水在沖洗，滯洪池上面就沒有鳥去「放屎」嗎？胡說八道嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
龔部長明鑫：他有用高壓水或低壓水來沖洗，這是允許的。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
蘇委員清泉：鳥兒飛到滯洪池會有交通管制，叫牠不可以飛下去這樣嗎？沒有嘛！所以你如果要比較嚴格的話，就要規定這些清潔劑是要用分解、有機的等等，環境部你要下去好好地研究，不要一味地說都沒有、都沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
龔部長明鑫：不行，不能用，我們現在是用清水…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
卓院長榮泰：都不能用啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
彭部長啓明：水源區都不行啦！都不行，清潔劑都不行，清水而已…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
龔部長明鑫：對！任何清潔劑都不行。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
蘇委員清泉：全部都用清水沖而已？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
蘇委員清泉：吸湖裡面的水去沖洗？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
龔部長明鑫：要用高壓的高壓水去噴啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這樣陸上的為何？啊，陸上沒有水，所以陸上的要用清潔劑。院長，是不是這樣說？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
卓院長榮泰：應該是這個邏輯啦，要用高壓水沖下去，就像這次花蓮在清理時用高壓水槍一樣，就能夠清得出去。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
龔部長明鑫：事實上用清潔劑也不是很好，如果不好的清潔劑還會傷害你的面板。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
蘇委員清泉：沒有那種清潔劑是沒有毒的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
龔部長明鑫：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
彭部長啓明：報告委員，那個鳥也不能說……有面板、沒有面板牠都會有排泄物啦，其實也都會掉到水庫啦！所以其實我們水庫的水都會經過淨水場，我們的量測都是合乎安全標準，而且水質非常好，可以放心啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
蘇委員清泉：再來，我們枋山那邊現在要設風場，院長，上次你有點頭，部長你也有說，這個地方要設風場，抗爭很大。你今天要明確跟我說你的態度是怎麼樣，因為他們要來抗爭，今天你們說完，他們就會決定要來、不來，所以我也在擋他們，但是你今天要跟他們說一下，說這個如果沒有符合什麼條件以上，你就會反對，這個不要再做了啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們環評委員是非常嚴格的針對非常敏感的部分，所以請鄉親們放心，不用大老遠跑到臺北來抗議，我們會嚴格幫大家把關。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
蘇委員清泉：那天我去環境部那邊看一看，在環境部外面打架、可能不錯、丟雞蛋也不錯，不需要做勞師動眾的事情。所以院長，你的看法就是不合格絕對不讓它設置？ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那當然，但是我們相信專業的數據，科學的數據我們都相信，也請委員能夠用專業來評鑑這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
蘇委員清泉：花東反風車大聯盟已經成立，我也在支持他們，但是臺東縣政府明確說不能做，這樣就比較安心了，風車低頻噪音實在不是辦法。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][1] |
再來，我們農業科學園區裡面那3個滯洪池現在已經要放光電，那些工具、材料都準備好了。部長，你都沒有在做環評，放任這樣搞下去，這樣不行啦！注意一下好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在正在研究到底多大的面積，這個案子我會再去了解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，在敏感的地區，包括山坡地、包括濕地等等，若它達到一定的面積、一定的規模，我認為還是要經過比較科學跟專業的依據後，我們才能夠說服地方，這個政策的推動才會順暢。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，你這樣說我很安慰，因為核三廠的光電…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
龔部長明鑫：現在的規定，包括特農的部分，還有環境保護區，還有重要濕地、野生保護區跟國家公園，這個本身就是要做環評的，現在的規定就是要做，或是山坡地面積比較大，那也是要做。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
蘇委員清泉：核三廠那個部分有500公頃，那是蔣經國時代就已經劃下去了，所以那裡是一個特區，隨便他們要做什麼，現在蓋光電板，面積有55公頃，而且現在在邊坡的部分，也是把地弄得歪七扭八。部長，我看我們還要再跑一趟，如果你到現場看，可能你會看得頭暈暈的，整個泥石流到處流！ |
| gazette.blocks[77][1] |
（播放影片） |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
龔部長明鑫：這個不是核三廠的出海口。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
蘇委員清泉：山坡地都推平來蓋光電板…… |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
龔部長明鑫：核三廠蓋的光電板是在廠區裡面，絕對沒有蓋到廠外。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
彭部長啓明：報告委員，禮拜五的時候我有叫我的同事去檢查，這有三個原因，我說核三廠那個部分當然有一些開發、有一些裸露的，但是它的量沒有太大，最主要是因為那裡有銀合歡，那個是外來種；第二個，附近有一個水利工程，希望能夠趕快完成，可以做污水處理，目前的排水不是核三廠造成的，這是我們目前初步的勘查結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，那些爛泥都覆蓋到珊瑚上，都快死光光了，所以這真的很可惜，當地業者大家也都哀哀叫。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][1] |
再來就是老埤農場的部分，你有說把三寶擋下來了？環境部。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
彭部長啓明：是，我們退回了。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
蘇委員清泉：退回了？ |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
彭部長啓明：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
蘇委員清泉：不要再這樣搞了，如果再下去，因為它比較低，現在種平地茶有七百多公頃，你現在把它推平要來蓋光電，有需要這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][1] |
還有更誇張的，院長，我跟你說，這張照片就是那天內埔屏科大旁邊開的說明會，當中有議員、也有村長參加，他們說要在公墓上面蓋太陽能光電板，這是要做什麼？要幫我們的祖先遮蔭？就已經夠陰了，還要遮蔭？嚇死人！那是公墓欸！在公墓蓋光電板，在那裡大家差點打起來，也要翻桌了！還好我沒去，如果我去了，又要說是我在慫恿的，所以這個真的誇張，全臺灣沒有在公墓蓋光電板的。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
龔部長明鑫：不是，它不會放在墓上面，它是在走道的地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
蘇委員清泉：沒有啦！圍一圍就要蓋了，這些人的祖先幾百年來都住在這裡，這樣不行啦！不可以啦！好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
卓院長榮泰：關於這種不宜的地方，我們在當初設想或開放的時候就應該要把不宜的地方去除掉，這樣才不會造成大家的不信任。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
蘇委員清泉：公墓的旁邊做停車場我曾經看過，但如果要在公墓上蓋光電板，實在是有夠扯。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果它只是在一個建築物上面，或是在另外的空地，那是可以考慮，但絕對不要在墓地上面做任何搭架。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
龔部長明鑫：對，公墓旁的停車場啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
蘇委員清泉：時間有限，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][1] |
來，我們現在來說醫療韌性。請我們新出爐的石部長，很認真！還有財政部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
主席：麻煩請財政部備詢。內政部還是財政部？ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
蘇委員清泉：財政部。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
主席：麻煩請財政部備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，這是莫拉克風災的時候，這個是我本人，那個時候是用軍車載患者；再來這是用貨櫃車，醫生都被召回，他們的車都停在二高的路肩，然後我們用貨櫃車去把醫生拉回來，因為都淹水了，只有貨櫃車可以開，醫生們就這樣一個一個跳下來，然後這樣一個一個的接他們，那個時候我們一叫醫生，醫生充滿熱忱馬上就趕到，很感動！那個貨櫃車上面還有蛇，蛇也怕淹水啊！就躲在車上，泡水久了可能腳也會軟掉！ |
| gazette.blocks[97][1] |
但是現在嚴重了，現在我們的重症醫師都跑光光，大家都跑去開業、大家都跑去診所，這個事情上次我跟你說了之後，你也有做筆記，結果越來越嚴重！石部長，這是怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
石部長崇良：跟委員報告，關於急重症部分，當然我們一方面今年的健保挹注也比往年多很多，所以各醫院的點值都上來了，甚至在南部、高屏區都達到點值1塊錢；另一方面我們就調整支付標準，把急重症跟人力有關係的支付標準都優先調升，所以今年急重症就調了四十幾億；另外護理的部分呢，我們也在調，護理費我們也投入了25億。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
蘇委員清泉：院長，我跟你報告，這幾年石部長真的很認真、邱部長也很認真、你也很認真，挹注了很多費用到健保，這是事實！但是這幾年的狀況我要向你報告，這些錢都加在哪裡呢？都加在護理師、加在醫事、放射、檢驗這些，這些都在提高，但是醫生的薪資15年沒調整了，我也要替醫生說一點話。醫生為什麼都要跑掉？你沒說到重點啊，重點是在哪裡？石部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
石部長崇良：當然有一部分是因為在診所開業跟在醫院的醫師的稅負也有落差，因為在醫院裡面是屬於受僱，在診所裡面則是執行業務所得，所以兩者的稅負之間也出現一些不相稱的地方。所以也跟委員報告，我們也在研究，在醫院裡面的所有工作人員除了主治醫師外都是適用勞基法，只有主治醫師因為業務的關係，病人的生命、臨時性、緊急性、持續性不同，所以沒有納入勞基法。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
蘇委員清泉：美國總統川普說加班費、值班費免稅，甚至服務業的小費也免稅，現在重症醫生在醫院值班值到要死，你還向他課稅，現在醫生差不多要用兩個月至兩個半月的全薪去繳稅，他值班都值到「虛累累」了，你還課稅，大家當然要跑啊！去診所的稅負才不會那麼重嘛！上次兩個部長說要研究、研究、研究，研究到現在到底是怎麼樣？我們的重症醫療會不會崩盤？卓院長，你現在是最重要的，你是powerful，你的決定就會定生死。不然走光了以後，我們在座的各位，包括你、包括我、包括我們的家人，以後如果重症去醫院會沒人醫治而死翹翹，不要說不會喔！所以院長，你一句話而已，不然還在繼續流失而且越來越嚴重。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們還是要尊敬跟感謝每個醫師，當投入這個行業的時候，他對自己的工作使命都是非常崇高的，但不能因為這樣變成不受尊重，那我也承認過去一段時間，我們對護理人員跟相關人員的需求提高做得比較多。這兩天我也跟部長提到，未來怎麼對醫師做更多在權益上面的維護，您說到了加班免稅的部分，財政部應該有一個想法，我們來聽財政部的說法。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
阮次長清華：跟委員報告，目前的稅法規定，如果是為了雇主的目的執行業務，支領的加班費沒有超過規定標準的話，是不計入他的薪資收入來課稅的。現在問題就是主治醫師這一部分，他不適用勞基法，也不具公務員的身分，因為他的加班時數跟加班的支給標準目前都還沒訂出來，所以可能要麻煩衛福部這邊先訂出來以後，我們就會根據稅法的規定，提供一個非常公平合理的加班免稅規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
蘇委員清泉：所以你們財政部跟衛福部有在研究？ |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
阮次長清華：我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
蘇委員清泉：什麼時候會有結果？你已經說好幾個月了，石部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
石部長崇良：跟委員報告，我們也跟財政部開過3次會議，賴惠員委員也主持了兩次協商，當然誠如剛剛財政部規範裡面提到的，要有一個加班的規定，包含上限標準，這個部分我們大概也有一些共識，以80到100個小時，也不能夠太高，過勞也不好，但是以80到100個小時間的加班時數為上限。再來就是加班費如何採認的問題，還在跟財政部磋商…… |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
蘇委員清泉：這都是技術性的問題啦！院長就只有你一句話，要或不要這樣而已，我跟你說…… |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
卓院長榮泰：原則、方向就是如此。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
蘇委員清泉：醫生沒加薪水！你讓他減一些稅負才留得住！這真的是現在全國的醫生，尤其是醫院的醫生，包括公家醫院，大家都在看，今天這個直播絕對有很多人在看。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，大方向是如此，剛剛部長說的一句很重要，我們也不希望醫師有太多的業務造成自己的過勞，所以一定要在合理的範圍當中，這個部分財政部應該會來支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
蘇委員清泉：來、來、來，剩幾秒鐘而已…… |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
阮次長清華：我們會…… |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
蘇委員清泉：多久會好？跟我說一下，不然「貓貓看」也不是辦法啦！真的是每個月都在走人！網紅醫師陳醫師昨天才嗆聲而已，說他要走，稅負太重沒辦法了，他去診所比較輕。所以這些要怎麼讓他們做得下去，公家醫院大家也是蠢蠢欲動，加班費幾百塊，你要叫他們怎麼做得下去啦！院長，什麼時候？剩18秒，你快回答我，看1月或2個月…… |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
卓院長榮泰：今年來研究好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
石部長崇良：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們今年來研究這個方案出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
蘇委員清泉：今年？ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
蘇委員清泉：明年就適用了？ |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
卓院長榮泰：研究出來以後會有個時程，再跟委員報告，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
蘇委員清泉：好，感謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及各相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][1] |
報告院會，在議場2樓旁聽的是來自新竹的中華神龍汽車協會，我們掌聲歡迎。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][2] |
接下來是上午最後一位質詢委員張宏陸委員，請質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
462 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-4-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
373 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-10-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1148002 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1148002_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1148002_00007 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第4會期第5次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1148002_00005 |