| IVOD_ID |
164429 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164429 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T11:54:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T12:03:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b724551b8ea59b237720e647d743851f483c966d97180d5d2925914c9679432255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:54:30 - 12:03:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部、經濟部、農業部、內政部就「太陽能光電板案場環評機制與保護區廢棄物管理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查
(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員羅明才等20人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【專題報告及法律案採綜合詢答；法律案僅詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.778 |
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7.295 |
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好 感謝主席 麻煩請環境部彭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
11.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
請彭部長好 部長好 部長很務實的來探討光電板的一個部分我延續剛剛召委的一個問題喔我先請教現在全台灣到底有多少光電板以重量來看這個要去算一下啦因為總共大概是15GW啦是15GW那重量 因為我們現在討論的是光電板現在發電以及未來20年後可能要清除的所以應該要現在算出來可以盤點出來現在台灣多少光電板嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
呃 這個因為它每一個順滯的時間不一樣排出的時間也不一樣所以我們到目前為止都不知道此時此刻台灣有多少光電板呃 15Gigawatt所以我們大概可以算推算呃 這個請能源署來算來 還是能源署 來經濟部次長因為那個片有大有小來 沒有問題大小這是 但是這很務實我們今天算科學 科學 數學這都很務實的數字現在台灣此時此刻有多少光電板重量來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
92.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個重量不知道要計算一下也不知道好基本上我們現在設置了15.1GW是我都清楚但是我現在要了解的是說有多少為什麼會問這個問題因為再來接下來第二這次颱風毀損了多少光電板以我們現在看到的是有2000公噸的廢棄物是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
107.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
兩千噸嘛那兩千噸的廢棄物平均要處理因為有近有遠有這個難易處理兩千噸的廢棄物要處理要花費多少錢有沒有推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
因為這個是他光電業者跟回收業者的商業行為有的貴有的便宜有的一公斤可能只要20幾塊有的要開到30幾塊不一定但我的意思是說2000噸的這個處理廢棄物推估要花多少費用我所知道大概花幾億左右幾億左右幾億是幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不是 部長為什麼會問這個問題 很簡單嘛業者羊毛出在羊身上 如果說這一次破損了兩千公噸高達幾億元的部分那會不會業者他沒有辦法負擔 然後他到時候就是擺爛變爛攤子不會不會 那以及現在全台灣到底有幾公噸的光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為每年都會有颱風那我們想要了解的是說我們現在到底不定時炸彈今年因為颱風來而毀損了2000噸的廢棄物造成幾億的額外的支出那未來我們如果說以之後要報廢的光電板來算那這幾年我們就真的只能祈禱台灣都風調雨順 國泰民安 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
202.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不然今年破損兩千噸 明年破損一千噸那每年是不是都會有業者增加的額外的成本收入那這一些都應該是主管機關去掌握跟要求我們才能夠確保是說有沒有辦法推行這個政策的時候確實業者能夠到最後處理這些廢棄物嗎包委員 這個兩千噸目前我們算到平均的價格大概是一噸是上萬塊所以整個這次兩千多噸他們自己要負擔六億左右六億左右 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不會讓他們逃掉吧當然不會啊因為他們基本上跟能源署都有簽約的你先講不會啦我先姑且相信不過再來我們看到2032年環境部最拼評估太陽能的發電廢棄物高達5萬公噸剛講2000公噸就要花6億那5萬公噸要花多少錢你剛剛講一個平均30塊5萬公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
233.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
15億喔 還是150億150億那有沒有算過這150億誰買單基本上他如果是正常廚藝的話因為他們有交給如果2039年 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
每公會將近10萬噸10萬公噸的廢棄物1公噸剛你講了1公斤30塊10萬公噸會是300億對不對也就是剛剛我們稍微有講到就是說你實際的處理成本可能到了397億可是你現在收的回收清潔費每千瓦只有1000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以你平均差別有兩倍以上 差了兩百多億那這兩百多億要誰買單報告委員 因為現在量比較少所以量供需之間 因為他才開始在做從來沒有那麼大量過所以第一個是現在的市場上還不均衡那我們預期未來會均衡當然啦 那個價格應該是要把它調升啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你說回收的清潔費應該要調升我們其實有跟能源署在討論過這個事情因為2019年以前你設的光電板的業者是不是連繳回收清潔費都沒繳是沒錯是嗎那你現在制度上面已經有公平性的一個缺陷你現在又持續的增加可是我們增加的這個回收清潔費也都沒有收足額日本已經出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
上個月的新聞日本就講說光電板的報廢潮會是一個未來非常嚴重而且是燙手的山芋尤其日本講說到2035年左右是會有50萬公噸的光電板日本的業者日本的這個能源大臣直接講啊環境大臣環境大臣直接講啊回收費用誰出無人買單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以如果說我們現在已經看到可能10年20年左右的問題就已經有那麼龐大的一個成本支出而現在我們的經濟部相關的政策就是一直來光電光電來使用來申請但是光電會面臨到兩個問題第一問題是可能颱風每年都來一次來的颱風就會回損 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
364.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這次是極端啦不是每一次都會那麼多因為以前也沒那麼多過所以你也沒有辦法保證我們的極端氣候只會越來越多越來越少沒有辦法保證嘛這是第一個我本席當然不希望我也希望台灣風調也順國泰民安但是實際今年已經面臨到這樣的問題啦在今年以前也沒有人也沒有人知道說現在我們光電板那麼的脆弱一次颱風來就會有那麼大量的一個破損 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那第二個部分是我們看到可能預期的將來我們至少都還有幾十年可以活吧我們預期的將來10年20年左右就會有幾百億的處理費用應該要做處理而這些處理費用如果沒有預售的話到時候誰買單不知道業者他現在賺錢賺得很開心但會不會他到了那時間點之後他就雙手一攤沒錢了脫產了變賣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
422.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他政府公司關閉了那逃走了怎麼辦還是要換一個人頭那這誰要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
部長這是不是一個問題我相信這是我們共同應該要面對的問題我認為報告委員其實這個回收你不要把它當成廢棄物啦所以我們在未來要修雙法的時候也希望委員來支持我認同啊能夠利用回收再利用我當然認同但是現在就很務實的層面就是說那你要告訴我你剛剛算了每公斤30元是不是就最低標準你至少你要花每公斤30元處理成本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
478.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那如果說真的是這個處理成本就在這邊的話那就是鐵打的成本在那裡那你就要回推是說那你現在到底有此時此刻多少噸未來要花每公斤30元你應該這樣回頭來去算你就可以算得出你現在應該預期我們要怎麼樣解決這個問題嘛當然當然也因此剛剛召委才提出來您也講了應該要去算怎麼樣我們要來面臨到這個問題啊是這是一個債務模型的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
479.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
487.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒錯 那這個辦法誰要來提出我們能源署跟我們循環署他們就是在磋商這個事情什麼時候可以提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
488.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一個具體可行這個是減碳足跡我們講說淨零碳排的時候我們要看減碳路徑那一樣光電板的設置我們現在也沒有說反對光電板喔但我的意思是說你要預先設想20年後15年後廢棄的光電板怎麼處理那你的廢棄光電板處理路徑什麼時候可以提出我們剛剛兩個數都有代表說是年底之前提出方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
517.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 提出方案 我們要再來檢視具體與否 以及真的是否可行因為我們都關注到這個問題了對 謝謝謝謝洪夢凱委員發言 |