| IVOD_ID |
164411 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164411 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T11:18:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T11:29:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1bbe7c0120864f38e488348e19566c842c83c966d97180d5d2f711b04a562537095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:18:14 - 11:29:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主委麻煩不好意思 謝謝主席麻煩有請國發會主委我們再請主委 |
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委員長主委好看了主委的CV啊我覺得您跟我之前常常合作的那個陳功平老師背景很像都是Rogers的出來然後到中央然後到中研院經濟所研究的也是Gain theory |
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你的publication的列表我大概看了一下我相信game theory應該你的研究有所專精謝謝委員那到公務部門來是不是能夠把你所學的專長落實到有利於國家發展跟國際名聲是我們在立法院裡面要監督的重點因為我 |
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我問這項來的風格是有疑所疑非常直接那也請葉老師不要介意也請黃老師不要介意OK好我們接下來喔民進黨政府國發基金投資的績效跑劑量的人要分析其實我都覺得國發會應該把這些數據因為這是台灣納稅人的錢把這些數據全部release出來 |
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那讓跑劑量的人好好去分析嘛然後看我們的政府過去告訴台灣社會給國會的數字是不是在做大內宣是不是文過是非 |
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137.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
因為學術人要研究我有data的話啦可以做很多分析啊那我現在沒有data嘛我只能按照你們公布的數字來看嘛我們先看民進黨主政時期啊不要一年每一年報告都跟說我們今年國發基金會賺多少錢結果是從什麼從李登輝總統時代人家就投資了台積電賺錢啊拿來什麼拿來填補蔡英文任內啊投資的虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
民進黨政府國發基金投資的績效有沒有有賺錢 有賺錢啊到2024年年底我看盡力賺錢的9家但問題是慘賠的28家我講的是蔡英文任內投資的不要再去講把馬英九的政績當自己的政績把陳水扁的政績當自己的政績甚至連李登輝都拿來當自己的政績這不好看 很難看面對這樣子的問題 國會很嚴肅 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
做了國發基金調查委員會的調查報告裡面如列出了2016年以後的投資案存在先設再劃把的問題罔顧外省專家提出來的反對意見質疑投資投資決策草率眾多委員不是請假就是代理還有國發基金的人違反公務員服務法旋轉門條款自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
226.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
審議說要投資這家公司等到自己下台了以後跑去這家公司當董事這能看喔這能看喔那沒關係啊國發基金調查委員會的調查報告招委是我到時候院會要處理的時候我們好好一項一項談這也不是你的鍋也不是你接主委以後發生的事情那個是前人留下來給你的但是我重視的是你處理的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案我們要修改產業創新條例的修法全面改革國發基金因為我們政壇有個前輩叫潘孟安當初他在當立委的時候他認為國發基金亂七八糟 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
用鬆散的行政規則根本管不了讓國發基金成為紓困基金所以潘孟安當立委的時候他的主張是國發基金他要設一個特別條例來加以規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
287.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們折衷沒有要國發基金設特別條例我直接就改產業創新條例的修法改革國發基金強化外部監督提高專案核准審議的密度改革私人的退場機制落實旋轉門條款建立公開透明的機制這些原則主委讚不讚成基本上都我同意基本上都同意 非常好我要拜託召委你有時間幫我擺個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個牽涉到我們全體納稅人的權益主委的態度又這麼正面非常的好啊 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
既然你都同意我就後面有很多細節我也不要占人家的時間我一個一個就都先跳過去委員那個旋轉門這個部分的話可能就是說可能要考慮一下因為會涉及到那個是是是那個工作權這個部分沒有關係主委你也知道我們中研院出來的都就事論事我們到時候條文的時候一樣機制一樣機制我們慢慢再來討論但我現在要跟你講的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我從2018年開始監督國發基金到這一次回來立法院不管是陳美玲還是前面的主委都跟我說違反法令公司治理不佳的就應該納入事故的標的主委贊不贊成 贊成那我們接下來看 省紀部卻說我們的國發基金沒有落實執行退場機制這省紀部的報告主委看過沒有省紀部的這個到 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我是沒有看過那主委你花一點時間看你閱讀的速度一定很快啦好我要特別講的是什麼這個聯合再生啊根本胡搞瞎搞因為主委是搞經濟出來的嘛賽局理論越有碰擊量這個騙不了要要民進黨政府要做大內宣騙台灣人民啊可能挾著媒體的優勢啊可以騙一死啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
383.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是內行的看門道不是看熱鬧數字拿出來看就知道了來我直接跟你講2017年國發基金管理會的時候評估說我們一定要投聯合再生啊太陽能國家隊啊我們每一年的營收會有多少錢啊全部都把它列出來結果列出來了以後2018年預定營收510億結果只有131億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
438.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
2022年達到980億我的老天啊 結果只有188億這個評估是徹底失靈了我不用講什麼理由我光攤出數字 納稅人看到背景都亮了我們的國發基金投資評估審議委員會啊可以預測到 施准到這種程度啊我是不曉得他們用什麼model預測啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
439.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我不曉得他們用什麼model預測 但預測出來的結果失準到這種程度真的是讓人觸目驚心但更嚴重的是什麼 更嚴重的是當初要投的時候 做虛偽不實的投資評估報告投了以後呢 2019年開始累計虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
463.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
又虧了上百億投以前虧上百億連民進黨的立委都在立法院問說我們國發基金是變成紓困基金然後那時候國發基金說不會太陽能國家隊太陽能國家隊推上去獲利可期後事看好結果呢投了又虧了什麼 又虧了上百億直接反映在哪裡 我再帶主委看這個是聯合再生的月K線 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
512.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主委有沒有看到啊 我們要投資的時候2018 2019的時候 股價跌到谷底你有沒有看到對嘛 就跌到谷底嘛哇 國發基金進場要投資啊股價一路攀升啊 一路往上主委有沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
513.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
542.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
現在不僅是什麼啊政府被當盤子啊還拖著一堆股市的小白啊在國發基金的背書下面啊一起當盤子現在每股跌到有沒有六塊你看最右邊的就好了 這個是我剛來執行以前我上去網站下面 download現在跌到股價有剩六塊嗎在附近了虧到脫褲子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
543.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
564.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
虧得脫褲子我就奇怪了因為這個弊案我一開始追我一直追到現在 國發會的主委跟我說要啟動退場機制結果啟動退場機制是什麼是在用喊的喔開始說要啟動退場機制結果現在試了幾股主委你知道嗎 試了22萬股總共有9900多萬股 試了22萬股 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
571.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
598.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
難怪審計部的報告說根本沒有落實退場機制啊繼續虧啊 繼續了啊那我們管國發基金的人是什麼心態那納稅的錢又不是我的錢如果是在外面的民間企業基金管理人管理股票管理成這個樣子啊早就不曉得被炒魷魚炒十次了結果我們的國發基金不要沒關係為什麼不要沒關係 代理人效應嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
600.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
627.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
虧的又不是我的錢虧的是中華民國國民的錢有什麼關係我們大家高官權貴有的吃有的喝有的撈有的現場卸任還要聯合再生幫他幾千萬在屏東那邊養退休的官員大家都有的撈嘛幹嘛要管這種亂象 主委有沒有決心改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
628.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
653.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們那個事故退場這個部分其實我們又在持續在修正那我們用新的辦法來沒有關係啊 主委你新上任主委我對新上任的主委一向都很溫暖我一定給你時間跟空間但時間到的時候我們要檢驗成效希望你跟其他前面幾個主委不一樣真的有破例改革 可以嗎可以好 謝謝 |