| IVOD_ID |
164353 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164353 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T09:42:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T09:50:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1bec674c2d09b2e78f9336e3c0e2d3d52383c966d97180d5d2856507347698b5fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:42:00 - 09:50:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「潛艦國造原型艦海測執行現況及因應作為」，併請台灣國際造船股份有限公司董事長列席，並備質詢。） |
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請參謀長台船董事長台船董事長是是陳委員部長好各位同仁好我今天在這邊用一個工程的角度來跟各位做一些觀念上的溝通不同的角度來督導事情是有不同的面向我們用一個期程各位來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.465 |
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52.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
各位看这个其成这都是根据公开的我们只是用比较细的分析那么建造的流程中间第一个安全是不可以妥协的性能如果有缺点可以讨论可以精进其成你要有个tolerance所谓的节点绝对不是固定一个点这里面涉及到供应链的厂商交货 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那他延迟了那当然台船要承担所有责任来谈因为部长您是法律人我在这边提出一个就是过去在这个第一条船台船前面跟他的供应商供应链签约的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
都说这个拿到出口许可但是通常出口许可有但书我这个出口许可不保证你15年在过程中间这个供应商被其他的大厂商并购了并购了以后这家供应商的专案经理被换掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那么大厂商呢一约会执行但是其成他不背负责任那么罚则罚不到他也就是说所有的出口许可在合约里面他都有但书千万不要因为某种因为因为国际政治因为国内这个比方政坛改组什么什么因此我这个出口许可失效了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
在出口许可的弹书里面海军的律师台船的律师跟供应商的律师要共同掌握这个节点这个才会影响到你测试的过程不是工程的进度是因为交货的文件时间内容有所改变所以站在支持潜舰国造我想国民党在野党执政党大家的方向是要降低风险 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
149.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
安全不能妥協性能可以研討缺點可以改進時程你要有一個預量有個 tolerance |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
176.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那麼這張圖表就看起來我們第一條船現在還有很多測試的項目要在做那麼像在水面浮航的時候請問是用電瓶推進呢還是啟動了主機呢還是有試驗它的充放電這個過程以專業的角度他們都在做那麼下潛以後要測試哪些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
提供一个参考意见就是说以这个时程来看后面的7条船这个时间太乐观也许前面的长官有点觉得这个太有把握但是你要把期程放宽所以15年到20年这个预量台船要来掌握海军要能掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
另外一個就是說當初寬估的價錢這麼長的騎乘中間我們採購的價錢美金跟台幣的匯率是固定價款嗎還是通膨都能掌握所以這個預量調節空間海軍跟台船自己要掌握這個東西都影響到你每一個單位進程的節點同時在第一條船交船以後海軍回去還要做水下許多的測試噪音測試這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
消遲線圈 那是下一個階段我們再來談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
232.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
259.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那么有很多的性能在交建以后持续发展过程中台船要交的是包括维修保养所有的技术手册要交给海发那同时在海军的潜修中心要建立基本的库储量不能任何一个小的维修要回台船所以这些东西在第一条船交船的时候程序上都要做完那这个东西是花很多时间是属于工程跟管理的部门 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
260.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
263.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那在這個圖上看到就是說如果這個到20這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
267.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
291.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
35年38年是做不完的话你都已经2040年因为你每一条船的大修要回台船你的中继维修要回台船海砖的干污有限所以当船交到第三条以后就永远有一条船在施工建造永远有一条船在大修这个希望台船以工程管理的角度宽估最后一个就是在测试过程中间我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
292.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
320.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
强调了安全绝不能妥协在过去国外有很多潜舰的意外事件我希望纳入考虑这个在2003年中共海军361民级潜舰在做潜航的时候呼吸管航行那启动的主机就进气阀故障没有打开两分钟把潜舰内的空气抽光 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
321.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
全船的人員通通都犧牲掉了後來中共海軍做了一個很嚴肅的檢討因此我們這個船在做水面測試潛航測試不是光潛望鏡要用呼吸管航行充放電那這個非常重要所以我們站在支持的角度看騎乘都是可以調節可以控制不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
370.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
过于乐观那么现在不要去讲节点是不是11月来明年我从另外一个角度看如果你能够在6个月内掌握你自己的调节空间我觉得国人都可以接受风险不要国人承担技术台船要掌握专案的管理海军要控制所有的装备规格 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
371.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
399.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
都有原厂的保证但是出口许可里面后续料配件的持续供应你要去看它的弹数会不会说卖断了以后是另外一家我不管这些都是从法律的角度来看那么最后一个图就是说潜航潜望舰是逐至深潜不要一家伙先说我潜50公尺我就要看你呼吸管航行因为361潜舰就是在呼吸管航行出了一个状况 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
415.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們是支持的前望鏡深度航行要含呼吸管各位看這張圖這個就是到了前望鏡深度了但是呼吸管還沒上來你要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
柴油发电机你的进气阀要打开如果有海浪过大它会瞬间关闭那这个时候你自动控制你要停主机不然它就会把你的这个空气抽光这个安全措施是不能够妥协的以上我提出建议从工程的角度从专案管理的角度从台船施工技术角度我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
455.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
各家的專業精神要能夠整合而不是從個別點去切入那麼以上我看看部長您這邊有什麼指導我想剛剛陳委員指教的應該都很正確我想我們會依照這樣來辦理台川董事長您這邊呢是 謝謝委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
483.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們會配合海軍好好這樣辦參謀長這邊抱歉 謝委員知道針對期程跟預算部分我們都會做在合理的一個推估然後來確保任務可以完成我們大家努力共同希望看這個案子能夠順利能夠達成所有國人的期望謝謝各位謝謝 謝謝陳委員 |