| IVOD_ID |
164314 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164314 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T11:59:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T12:13:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3941de45bc201b23d1c5687840456a8640a48d75bfa96c3eff6fa5687ff727cf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:59:36 - 12:13:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、衛生福利部次長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長史哲列席就「高鐵公司推動寧靜車廂所引發正反意見,政策上路近一個月的成效及後續宣導因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月15日及16日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩有請運安會的主委以及交通部的次長林主委 吳次長兩位好道路的設計攸關的不僅僅是行車通暢與否更攸關的是非常多人生命的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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我之前針對陽梅休息站設計不良三年十三起車禍造成七死二十三傷有八件痔狀分隔到我之前兩次提過質詢我當初在提質詢的時候六月交通部高工局堅持說符合規範 |
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我為了要說服交通部高工局為什麼會符合規範我把其他休息站的設計甚至當初你們的設計圖我全部都拿出來我看不懂現場的施工跟設計圖完全不一樣為什麼會符合規範儘管如此交通部的高工局在面對我的質詢的時候堅持符合規範 |
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後來交通部函附說會透過標線標誌改善但是對於分隔島本身的安全未至一遲等到 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.908 |
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今年9月運安會在針對這件事情進行調查的時候因為他有個調查的歷程報告陸陸續續的出來其中所提出來的事故事實資料的報告明確的說啟用沒有滿4年發生14起事故除非大部分的駕駛人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.711 |
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141.742 |
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到陽梅休息站的時候特別喜歡違規特別喜歡超速特別精神不濟要不然我根本不知道要怎麼樣解釋這個數據運安會說閘道實際轉彎半徑與竣工圖不符彎道比原設計更小結果交通部還是說設計符合規範 |
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9月運安會罕見發布安全通告建議交通部盡速研擬執行優化措施我們來看運安會安全通告的第一點事故落斷道路工程與法規建議值或原設計規範不一致印證了當初我在這個質詢台上面質詢的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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來我先請教一下交通部到目前為止你們是不是不服運安會所提出來的調查還是堅持這個設計沒有問題我想我們尊重運安會那不是尊不尊重的問題 人命關天啊但是我們認為他的規劃我們檢查結果我們認為是符合規劃來請運安會的主委交通部好像對你們的認定不是很服氣 |
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當初為什麼要成立運安會就是希望有個獨立的機關嗎當初我第一次當立法委員的時候在交通委員會針對普悠瑪的事故我跟交通部跟台鐵有很多的意見交換在那個背景下在全民的期待下我們成立了運安會 |
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交通部可能是有自己主管的職責他如果承認他如果有疏失的話他可能會擔心後續責任的問題所以我們才承認運安會那現在我有一點搞不清楚狀況啦交通部還是堅持他沒有問題運安會出來的調查結果卻不是這個樣子來請問一下主委那接下來該怎麼辦聽你們的還是聽交通部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
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我們的事實資料報告的資料是因為用空拍圖那我們的溫馨空拍圖的精密度比較高我們是一公分的誤差所以是不是當時我不知道因為這個還在分析階段嘛是不是當時高工局他們的設計規範跟他們當時竣工所採的標準我先問一下啦你們為什麼會發安全通告 |
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288.737 |
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因為因為已經陸續又再發生他有系統性的問題然後我們發覺就因為已經陸續又再發生就是系統性的問題是主委講到這裡我相信在備詢台上的官員應該可以體會應該可以理解為什麼我當初站在這邊質詢這個問題我們的交通部我們的高工局非常的傲慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
319.335 |
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344.734 |
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我不曉得是平視於專業上面的傲慢還是沒有把用路人的安全當一回事我質詢完了以後繼續堅持沒有問題要逼著運安會直接發安全通告出來那如果按照交通部剛在備詢台上面所表示的態度跟立場那運安會等於形同虛設嘛 |
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你的事實報告交通部也不鳥你啊你的安全通告可能在交通部的眼中根本沒有必要啊你們現在發生事故路段跟本來的設計規範 |
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法規的建議值就不一樣了然後還建議交通部高工局檢視行車動線道路及交通工程設施的安全性競速研擬並執行相關的優化措施運安會在這個安全通告裡面已經給交通部這樣的建議了沒有錯吧是嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
387.552 |
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後來因為我們化了安全通過之後高工局有派總工程師還有幾個他們的相關人員到應當會來拜訪那我們也跟他解釋他也理解了他們會立刻採取優化的措施他們會立刻執行優化的措施對 他們也理解了他們不是一切都認為符合規範那還有什麼優化的措施好執行來 請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
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跟委員報告剛講的安全規範部分我們確實是符合安全規範那剛講的這個運安會要求我們做的經營措施我們會去做所以你們的意思是說本來就符合規範但是現在運安會既然這樣講我們把它做得更好是不是這樣可以這麼說我們非常會當官真的 |
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官場之道 深岸官場之道前面沒問題啦全部都符合規範這樣才不會有人被究責嘛但運安會既然已經這樣講了好嘛 我們已經符合安全規範了但既然運安會這樣講了 我就把它優化我現在我老實講 我關心的是用路人的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
469.315 |
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493.036 |
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你們在說詞上面要怎麼樣文過是非要怎麼樣美化不是我關心的重點所有的用路人所有的公民心裡面會有一把尺你們的責任相關要不要被追究那個是後續的問題我會反映在我今年的預算提案上面但我現在只關心一件事情 |
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一樣從用路人安全的角度你們所謂的優化要多久可以完成 |
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503.748 |
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531.26 |
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我們跟委員報告我們目前大概分三個階段短期 中期 長期 短期我們大概10月底會先找專家學者來進行看怎麼樣讓這個整個的設計10月才要找專家學者再來看對 就這個月那奇怪了我6月提出質詢的時候你們是覺得反正黃國昌也不懂交通嘛更不懂安全嘛所以我跟你們講的時候你也覺得沒必要嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
532.011 |
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然後現在呢陸陸續續發生事故10月才要找學者專家來研議喔你會不會覺得太晚了你會不會覺得太晚了運安會告訴你要優化終於聽進去了但是還是堅持我們本來已經符合規範現在只是優化所以要找專家學者來那找完專家學者開完會以後下一個階段呢 |
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560.083 |
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要做什麼事 什麼時候要完成跟委員報告我希望啦你們討論你們研議啊繼續討論繼續研議啊我真的希望在你們完成以前不要再有任何事故不要再有任何傷亡 |
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586.553 |
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我不曉得你們能不能夠了解用路人的心情我也不曉得你們能不能夠理解那些傷亡家屬的心情但對你們來講堅持我本來就OK了現在只是要研議如何優化知道要怎麼當官最重要知道要怎麼樣沒有責任最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
614.71 |
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618.341 |
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但是你們還要多久還需要多久的時間可以具體的說嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
620.297 |
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跟委員報告有關那個設計規範的部分這邊說明一下那規範的建議它有所謂的最小值跟建議值那按照我們目前這個路段它的設計速率是60KPH60公里每小時那它的最小半徑是120那現況的部分呢現況的部分它最小半徑是600所以它基本上是符合規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
648.343 |
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668.178 |
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符合規範就不用改啦對 那針對運安會運安會的報告亂講運安會的建議他希望我們能夠提升一些容錯的空間那這部分我們希望在11月份邀集專家學者來提供一些建議那另外針對所謂的自駕車的部分那因為自駕車 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
669.719 |
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685.625 |
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根據我們拜會運安會得到的一個結果是自駕車在這個地方它的這個自駕系統會自動失效那這部分我們也會邀請車安中心跟相關的自動自駕車的業者沒有關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
686.986 |
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715.725 |
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你就直接跟我講你的優化還要多久我們10月就要開會來談我知道你10月要開會但是你會開完現況不會有任何改變我跟你保證我們希望說有一些精進的方案能夠在11月來執行11月執行什麼時候執行完畢就11月11月執行完畢好沒關係你們到時候提的優化的方案是什麼執行完畢的結果是什麼一做完馬上通知我給我資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
717.126 |
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738.367 |
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等你們做完了以後我會去現刊看你們到底做了哪些東西最後一個問題請教主委因為主席站起來了你們最終的調查報告什麼時候出爐沒有關係最終的調查報告什麼時候出爐快一點好不好 主委 |
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加快速度好不好不是啊 這個是有關於用路人的安全嘛你們自己都說啦事故不斷的數字在增加當中啊所以你們才會發安全通告但我現在看交通部啊其實對於運安會啊好像頗不以為然頗不以為然你們說他們有問題啊 他們堅持符合規範 |
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794.117 |
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當初設置運安會的宗旨要達到的目的絕對不是這個樣子交通部既然這樣子堅持國會的審議會有國會審議的態度但我希望運安會從用路人從行車人的角度去思考這個問題最終報告早點出來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
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因為這個案子比較整個大陸現行設計比較複雜所以還在不會啊你沒看旁邊的交通部高空局的人表現出來的態度這個很簡單的事啊我們現在都符合規範啊一點都不複雜都是開車的人不小心啊自己弄自己負責主委拜託速度快一點好不好我們盡量啦好謝謝 |