| IVOD_ID |
164310 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164310 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T12:17:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T12:29:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3aee658b1f0c5b9d8a3b07049f443442a0a48d75bfa96c3efa3b85e23f7c4a8dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:17:43 - 12:29:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部消防署署長就「警察、消防、海巡、移民及空中勤務總隊人員危勞津貼及退休權益之保障」進行專題報告並備質詢，另請行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、銓敘部派員列席備詢。） |
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謝謝主席麻煩有請我們的內政部的部長警政署的署長以及權敘部退伏司的副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.473 |
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三位時間的關係不一一問候我一直很關心我們退休警消他們的所得替代我們立法院三讀通過的法律三讀通過的法律台灣是個法治國家就已經生效了這些員警這些消防員他們公法上面的金錢債權對國家的公法上面金錢請求權都已經發生了所以我之前在48法治委員會 |
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55.082 |
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75.435 |
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我有問考試院學區部的我問他說在法律三讀通過了以後三讀通過了以後申請退休的同仁他們是不是應該要依照新法來計算從法律上面應該要依照新法來計算沒有錯嗎 |
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79.756 |
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105.172 |
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報告委員 就是今年114年的4月27日修改通過嘛是對 那我們原則上就是新退的同仁就是這個時間點退的同仁我們其實已經就用新法審批好 來看齁我那天問得很具體我說齁新法通過以後退的同仁你們給他的函有依照新法計算的選序部部長施念職也跟我說有 |
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106.601 |
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131.184 |
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但問題是我接到的陳情就不是這樣而且這個陳情就是直接從我們立法院來的看一下為了各自的保護我把相關人的人名全部都貼出來了這個是玄敘部的函玄敘部的函全部都是按照舊法再計算那顯然部長那天跟我講的是隨便亂講 |
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132.631 |
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152.131 |
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上面全部都是按照舊法在計算退休金審定的所得替代率到底是多少按照退伏法審定114年度退休的所得替代率完全都是按照舊法計算請問一下選區部這是怎麼回事 |
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154.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
169.174 |
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報告委員這個是在您下面這個框框有一個替代率上限是對依照警察人員是條例對這是我們剛開始法案通過的時候對那後來我們有再修正就把它放到它是今年7月還是8月退的 |
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171.055 |
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189.244 |
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我現在貼的上面的這一位啊這個是新法修正以後啊就他的生肖日是在114年的4月27號實行之後的新的退休案是啊那所以不是應該依照新法修就應該要依照新法發函給他 |
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190.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.534 |
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因為這個沈定涵的這個沈定涵的行政處分就攸關他接下來對於國家公法上面債權的行使啊你們還是按照舊法去算給人家所以人家才會來申訴嘛但是你們什麼後面啊 來來來後面你們多了一個備註 |
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211.985 |
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220.254 |
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備註依照警察人員人事條例35條依照按退休審定的總年資依照憲法應該是72.625但你們給他的是63.75這個就是新舊法之間的差別 |
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229.967 |
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250.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
新法生效的法律你把它塞到備註裡面但是還是要是該條例的主管機關內政部確定相關作業事項後再依規定辦理那我就看不懂啦立法院三讀通過的法律考試院給他的是依照舊法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
然後依照舊法裡面說那什麼時候可以按照新法要等到該條例的主管機關內政部確定相關作業事項後再依規定辦理嗎那請問主管機關內政部相關事項要確定還要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員是這樣子我們跟全序部開過五次的會議我知道那現在配合那個做的前置作業就是退休警察人員名冊的清查工作是我們的校隊在九月的時候完成校隊是但是全序部它有一個系統廠商的一個傳媒部分那也就是說在行政作業上可能有出現這樣時間差的差別是那我們要請全序部再對您做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以你現在提求第一個回去給選舉部我剛剛跟你講的部分就是第一個我們內政部跟選舉部有五次的開會我相信我要講的問題的point剛剛說的非常清楚了請選舉部回去告訴部長這件事然後再書面回覆我這到底是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
跟他在事後法治委員會回覆我的完全不一樣你們現在發函給我們的警察同仁說要等到內政部確定相關作業事項後再依規定辦理但是今天部長在上面回答你也聽到了相關的作業要巡視部處理不關內政部的事巡視部回去用書面回覆我好嗎因為我時間到我後面還有其他的問題可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
下個禮拜一個禮拜之內書面回覆我到底是怎麼回事第二個對這個警察同仁來講他今天或者是其他相同處遇的警察同仁來講他們看了今天的這場質詢收到這個函的同仁心裡面大概會有非常多疑惑到底是要等內政部還是要等選區部 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
370.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
韓尚說要等內政部但是今天部長說要等玄虛部你們統一口徑以後統一口徑以後跟這一些新法生效以後退休的統人說明清楚我希望能夠做到這件事情可以嗎一個禮拜之內回覆我可以跟委員補充報告一下嗎不是啊你現在占我的時間我有你一個禮拜之內又順便回覆我可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
可以嗎 第二個不好意思我很快把它做完去年發生職場霸凌的時候內政部說要落實健康友善職場環境 杜絕職場霸凌次長馬四元表示公務員很重要所以應該可以杜絕職場霸凌事件的發生等等等等這個是內政部發的函 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但一樣我接到的投訴啊來自於警察因為你們說警察內政部警政署說你們在113年12月27號等等等等就有署部會議職場霸凌的觀念警察機關職場霸凌的觀念宣傳都很會做來我們接下來來看在會議上賴群組公開羞辱責難貶低聲譽符不符合警政署認定的職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
450.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
服不服來請署長這個算不算職場霸凌這個看他有沒有持續性的一個狀況長期刁難工作無理要求好來來來我繼續啊來給你看結果我們有個駐外的警官 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
491.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在刑事警察局發生職場霸凌他跟警政署申訴警政署丟回去給刑事警察局進行調查一週內完成調查沒有給他說明的機會更扯的事情是被申訴的人還知道申訴的內容私下去接觸相關的證人被申訴的人可以知道申訴的內容私下去接觸相關證人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
可以這樣做嗎事實的部分是不是真的這個樣子有白紙黑字牽涉到事實認定現在我處理的是規範層面的問題態度的問題可以這樣做嗎這是正當的調查程序嗎是嗎來請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這個案就是由刑事局的一個主管機關來做一個調查那剛委所提的這個是不是有沒有這一項這些違反這些調查程序我們會再來瞭解沒有啦 是不是有事事實認定但我現在要的是態度問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
530.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
被申訴的人知道申訴的內容私下接觸相關證人這件事情是符合你們現在在處理職場霸凌的態度跟原則嗎是還是不是沒有這樣子所以沒有這樣子嘛非常好我要的就是這種原則性的你說不應該現實上是不是有發生對所以我們要去認定因為原則很重要我不要哪一天你跟我改口啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
說 讓被申訴的長官知道 讓他私下去接觸證人這件事情很正常好 第二個你們有沒有把案件 應不應該把案件登錄於職場霸凌通報平台應不應該召開由外部專家所組成的評議小組 應不應該都應該嘛那現實上如果沒有的話 誰要負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那主官要負責任啊 主官要負責任 非常的好我今天公開跟署長講這件事情來找我投訴的人 密密麻麻的資料大一大疊我看的是村部結舌啊我們的內政部警政署對社會宣告一套對我們所有的警察同仁宣告一套實際上面在執行的時候是另外一套持續性的霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
609.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
635.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後提出申訴了以後長官知道他跑去找證人我為什麼知道他跑去找證人人家來找我的時候那種空口說白話的我黃國昌是不會站在質詢台上面質詢的他連函都調出來了被申訴的人直接寫email直接寫email給相關的證人這就是email |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
668.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
可以這樣幹喔我話講到這裡就好來 署長回去了解這件事情在處理這個案子的時候有沒有違反我們的政府跟社會跟所有的警察同仁所提出來宣誓的處理原則需要多久我們來調查需要多久一個月來調查一個月來調查把這個把它弄起來需要這麼久喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
670.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
691.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
兩個禮拜好不好兩個禮拜以後調查清楚處理這個生疏案件我先講我的原則啊有理由沒理由我不會介入那個是相關權責機關的事情我處理的只有在處理的程序上有沒有違反規定跟你們對警察同仁宣誓的是不是一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
692.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
707.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我在意的只有這件事情否則的話你們說一套做一套以後誰敢申訴啊嚇都嚇死了兩個禮拜之內書面給我回覆有必要的話來黨團說明可以嗎可以好謝謝 |