| IVOD_ID |
164281 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164281 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T10:39:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T10:49:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a309f19b9630ee2d2fa3b07049f443442ad77ab6ef5aede898b88d7f28b768b82a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
麥玉珍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:39:09 - 10:49:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部消防署署長就「警察、消防、海巡、移民及空中勤務總隊人員危勞津貼及退休權益之保障」進行專題報告並備質詢，另請行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、銓敘部派員列席備詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好有請內政部部長請內政部劉部長委員好部長好我想要請教一下最基本的一個問題我們每一個人身為中華民國的公民是不是都要遵守法律的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
按照憲法的規定要遵守任何權利義務都要行政機關對於立法院三讀通過總統也正式公布的法律行政院是不是也要絕對的遵守法律的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我類似都回答過了我是內政部我沒有辦法幫行政院回應問題那我們的警察人員人事條例修法後現在法例已經生效它是不是一部特別法也是不是應該優先適用於退伏法呢這是不是你的工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
你可以回吧報告委員有關退府的部分不只是內政部包括權序部都在內那內政部是屬於行政院那權序部屬於考試院好但是你是我們的部會首長所以是不是應該帶領大家要依法行政這也是我們的公務人員的基本義務關於警消你是不是他們的長官你都不為 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不為警消同仁爭取權益嗎因為報告委員我們現在修法的部分是針對警消的退休人員那現在我在內政部那我所這個服務的機關裡面是在服務現役的警消那有關退休的警消人員的部分的話當然在警察人員人事條例裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
在貴院也三讀通過但是呢我們都是這個行政院的一個部會所以我們按照行政院的指示就是說在憲法法庭還沒有做出任何解釋之前我們現在就是屬於一個等待憲法法庭最後的一個憲法機關我們部長講那麼多但是呢我們看到我們都知道大家都要遵守就是法例 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但事實上行政院在115年的總預算中就是沒有沒有編列這筆錢立法院的預算報告中也清清楚楚的指出應先修法才能停編否則違法但是今天的報告中一個字都沒有提到這一點這是刻意隱瞞 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這樣對嗎但是剛才你說警消警查是你的義務退休就不是你的義務了嗎問題在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為我們報告中沒有看到啊報告委員我們今天的報告是針對深夜危老津貼的保障的報告那在第二個報告退休權益保障裡面說得非常清楚就是剛剛就是你所說的我們一定要依照中華民國憲法來做依法行政的部分那中華民國憲法的憲法法庭對於這一個部分還沒有做出詮釋之前我們就是依照行政院的指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
但是我請教一下 在49.72億的退休待遇具體讓誰來編 何時來編 這才是重點是全區部嗎的責任 還是內政部的責任為什麼到現在看起來就是沒有看到所以誰來編 是誰來去承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
沒有看到所以我們想要的是這個才是我們想要的重點沒有看到啊是內政部還是前續部的責任沒有看到所以就大家踢來踢去所以你們是足球隊嗎因為我們沒有看到所以來承擔我們要的是這個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告委員我剛有講過了我們還是按照行政院的規範來處理所有跟退休人員保障的部分那退休人員保障的部分有一部分是考試院的全序部在負責對 你有提過啊 你有提過財政負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但法律已定這就是義務行政院以違憲於立為由不編列但立法院已否決附議總統也公布了為什麼還不執行呢我們要的就是各個部會的承擔要負責不是就是說都說依法行政但是都沒有依法行政這樣子才我們今天才要 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要來說要來開這個會啦我們要的是誰要來編誰來負責所以部長是沒辦法回答請問委員要問我的是什麼問題依法行政也要依憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
325.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以你的意思說就是說法例我們立法院都有說還沒有修法之前沒有編 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒有編是違法的所以您一直說就是法律可能是違憲 唯有拒絕在115年的預算編列是49.72億的這種行為這種行為完全是違法的就像說一個國中生 覺得今天的考試規則不公平所以我就拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
就是寫考卷等老師要把規則改好了我再寫這樣可以嗎連國中生都知道這個在規則未改之前他必須按照這個考卷要寫完但是現在的現在的行政院有依法編列預算嗎所以我的意思就是說你們比國中生都不如啦國小的學生都知道台灣是依照憲法才有各項的法律基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你們只要說就是這個違憲就是可以我們沒有說違憲違憲要由憲法法庭來做最後的確認你們要一律違憲的話這個機關都不會做了那是不是只要說誰覺得說可能是違憲就可以先不執行嗎不是立法委員也不是內政部長大法官才能決定這件事情是否違憲不是立法委員也不是內政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
434.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是現在我們法律已經通過 總統也公告了行政院也在8月23號申請釋憲8月23號的時候已經申請釋憲了 報告委員我們明文寫得非常的清楚在我們第二頁裡面的報告也講得非常的清楚 謝謝委員的指教可以這樣子的話 你就是說不執行也變成行政機關就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
455.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
凌駕於我們的立法權所以我們再來我們人事處裡面報告內政部還有權系部裡面召開的會議要說的是什麼要建置平台請教這個是什麼平台這個平台的功能又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在會議中討論的內容有沒有談到怎麼樣執行替代力的提高80%的措施嗎還是說我們是19.72億的退休預算有哪個部會來負責編列有嗎因為我看在報告中裡面說要建立一個平台所以這個人事總處報告裡面寫的這個平台的功能是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
501.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
502.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有誰可以回答對啊因為內政部跟我們全新部一起開會的嘛所以裡面就是說我們有建置一個平台所以這個平台是什麼功能有討論到這些的預算啊或者這些的功能嗎誰來負責嗎開麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員就是人事總署的報告裡面所提到的這個平台是我們目前在發放公教人員的月退休金所使用的退休補續整合平台那如果針對這一次警察人員人事條例修正之後的那些退休金要重新補發的那個平台或重新計算的平台是由全序部那邊在製作所以是全序部要負責編列預算這樣的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
563.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員這個預算編列可能要請他們來回答人總沒辦法回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以說你們現在就是踢皮球就是在開會裡面是說有個平台有這樣子的去編列這些預算但是現在呢又說沒辦法所以我們不知道是說何時何日才有說在誰來編所以我們希望就是我們內政部在管理的我們警消軍人他們用生命來守護我們的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
598.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
政府就是用言語中 建制中來敷衍他們這樣子的話會不會覺得大家很心酸 很乾脆所以我們總統已經依法公布了行政院卻拒絕執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
612.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
藐視我們國家的制度還有背叛我們基層的人員讓人民真的情而以堪我們呼籲行政院立刻補正錯誤依法編列49.72億的退休的預算還給警消軍人們應有的尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
633.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
也要給我們人民一個守法的政府給人民守法 我們政府帶頭不守法這樣子的話 我們人民沒辦法接受謝謝大家 謝謝 |