| IVOD_ID |
164275 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164275 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T09:35:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T09:50:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3bbfe8c187ff72e1aa3b07049f443442ad77ab6ef5aede89856a65096fc31f86f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張智倫 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:35:09 - 09:50:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部消防署署長就「警察、消防、海巡、移民及空中勤務總隊人員危勞津貼及退休權益之保障」進行專題報告並備質詢，另請行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、銓敘部派員列席備詢。） |
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好好謝謝主席各位委員各位觀點大家早我是先請這個行政院主計處的專委李專委請李專委專委好 |
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24.526 |
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今天我們要請教有關於我們要幫助警察消防海巡移民空勤總隊的危老津貼跟退休權益之保障那基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.68 |
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64.967 |
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大家都知道在立法院這個今年三讀通過在114年1月7號三讀通過這個我們要就警察人士條例的修正案將這些退休所的替代率調高到50%那這個總統在4月25的時候公布修正條文那我想要先請教依照這個預算編制原則跟預算的編制程序什麼時候應該要編列相關的預算 |
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66.79 |
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90.997 |
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依照我們相關的規定我們是在大概是在七月底之前會開這個行政院內部會開這個預算審議會議那在八月中下旬的時候會踢爆行政院會議通過之後在八月底之前送到大院審議所以意思是在講說在編列的時候應該四五月起就開始編列了吧才有辦法在這個七八月的時候送到行政院來核定是嗎 |
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91.847 |
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115.492 |
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我們大概各機關提報概算大概是在6月左右那我請教一下那我現在看到115年度的預算的時候居然沒有編這一筆的預算所以當時照你的說法當時是有編這筆預算可是不知道為什麼原因這筆預算現在送到立法院來的時候不見了嗎我們依照各機關提報的需求不過這一筆的預算所以當時各機關都有編列預算一開始當時各機關都有編列預算嗎 |
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146.395 |
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這部分當時機關應該是沒有提報啦沒有提報預算跟你剛剛講了五六月就要編列預算七月八月就要送到行政院啊當時到底有沒有編列預算我的意思是說當時各機關沒有在概算的時候沒有納入這個部分但是他們有跟行政院報告說有這個就是人事條例這個部分有可能有一些疑義需要代處理什麼意思 |
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149.741 |
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就依照你們這個組計處的規定是不是應該要編列預算就你剛剛提的嘛又應該要編列預算嘛那為什麼後來你們自己各部會的組計處自己決定說不編列預算根本報告就是說我們一般在作業上會先核定一個概算額度嘛所以當時都已經核定算出來概算額度了因為這一筆預算是比較後期所以這個當時在核定的時候啊還沒有再考慮到這個部分 |
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181.345 |
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好那是不是有請有請內政部部長好謝謝部長那你剛剛聽完我們主計這個同仁 |
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193.437 |
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211.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
提出來的這個看法跟他所表達的意見您認為是否是當時其實各部會都有編列預算那其實是有送到行政院來那到底為什麼行政院後來他是沒有把這筆預算加到我們115年度的行政整個總體的預算是不是可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
部長這邊說明一下報告委員因為這是由行政院要回覆的部分我沒有辦法帶行政院來回覆那你看到你自己本部內裡面沒有編列這樣的預算所以部長我要跟你報告的點就是說依照整體我們這次立法院通過整體的行政程序來講基本上來講應該要編列應該要編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
應該要編列預算然後在115年的總體預算來講因為我要說的就是行政程序對我們來講尤其是人民大家都要依照行政程序來編列預算來做事情如果沒有編列預算的話就是因為行政院長他自己個人的意思然後來不去編列我想各部會應該要跟行政院長講說這是不應該做的事情那 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
是不是有請部長是不是稍微來對於我們這次沒有編列預算您的看法你自己本身作為內政部長您的看法是什麼報告委員我們還是一樣行政院是整體的那院長他站在行政院的高度他認為這件事情是需要尋求釋憲那我們就按照院長的指示來辦理好謝謝部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以本席在這邊還是要嚴正的強調立法院我們是五權分立的國家立法院要求要編列預算其實剛剛主計處也特別提出來說其實依照依法行政依照行政規定來講應該編列這個預算可是我們現在在115年度預算裡面沒有看到這樣的預算所以我們希望當然內政部部長他也無可奈何大家都聽行政院長的一個人的看法好那接下來我要強請這個海巡署的管碧玲管主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
323.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
昨天我有看到你在政黨協商你針對這個海委會的預算做這個強力的守護我覺得我基本上對所有這個景蕭海巡的預算我們都是支持的可是我們昨天在看到海巡署的一些特別預算的時候其實我有提 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一個這個提案就是要凍結這個海巡相關10%的預算就是針對海巡裡面採買無人機的部分我本來是要凍結10%那因為我本身是非常支持海巡的預算所以後來我有簽了一張組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
希望說海巡可以好好來利用這筆預算可是我看到這筆預算我今天因為本來你們海巡早上應該提供我相關的說明可是我還是沒有看到那裡面的有關於的預算就是在海巡署要採買無人機的部分他花了40億要採買無人機的部分那我現在算了一下總共要採買無人機的這個數量是451架這個數字對嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那如果這個數字對的話40億才買451架的無人機裡面包含了這個進程機412架中程機18架以及這個遠程機有可能21架等等的請問一下你們進程機一台的這個大概的價格是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員報告我們還必須要經過仿商的程序來處理那進程機它是比較是小型的無人機它當然會是一個經費上規模最小的一個那基本上我們建載的部分它就非常是一個重度功能的無人機的設計主委為什麼我對這筆預算相當有意見因為我本身是學會計的這412架的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
436.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
加上我們剛講的近程中程跟遠程的其實喔40億的經費除以451架的無人機一台的經費齁一台的經費喔高達800多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
475.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
一台無人機的經費高達八百多萬跟委員報告有一些無人機一台可能就要接近一億那基本上跟委員報告這個經費除了無人機本體的經費以外它還涉及因為它要做的是徵收的任務所以主委你的意思是說你有買這次的經費裡面有買上億的無人機的經費嗎沒有但是我的意思是說那您最貴的無人機的經費是買多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
各種型的大概它的價位會差距非常非常的巨大但是其中有很重要的部分是籌載的部分那籌載譬如說如果我們是要有夜視功能的籌載在上面的話那就非常的貴所以基本上這個預算不是只有無人機本體的預算在上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
521.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
很抱歉我們因為主委這個預算明年明天都要通過了你現在根本連最基本的進城的無人機的一台多少錢你也沒辦法回答遠程的最貴的都沒辦法回答剛剛還回答我要採買將近一億元的我剛剛幫你算過啦這個我我從邊有一個對照表給你來參考最近國防部軍備局啊採買這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個五萬台的無人機總共花的是五百億一台平均的價格如果用粗略來算是一百萬可是你現在的算法一台會將近到一千萬所以第二個這個國防部才買的都是軍事用的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
難道海巡現在也要採買的是軍事用的無人機現在整體的單價是比軍事用的無人機還要再高不會 還是跟委員報告就是說譬如說以艦載機來講我們目前以艦載機來講的話它會是一個比較所以你有沒有任何一個可以明確跟我講的一個數字到底進程機的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
大概一台是多少錢這麼基礎的問題現在都不能回答明天要如何通過這筆預算我們不能夠內定某一個款我沒有款項我只說大概的經費是多少錢如果沒有這樣你怎麼編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
595.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們事後來辦公室跟委員說明好嗎每一個項目其實我們會有細項來跟委員說明我想我不公開在這裡說明主委我要特別跟你講的海巡的400多架的這個無人機啊那我再請教主委你知道你們現在海巡啊你們現在總共有幾台無人機嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們現在18架你們現在只有18架無人機你們未來是要採購40億高端的無人機未來你們要如何去使用這批無人機不會的 我們的人力現在都已經開始在培訓然後陸陸續續也都已經不斷的在考證了 在考照了所以跟委員報告就是說 以這400架的400架無人機 我想要請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
650.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
40亿的400架无人机要400亿的经费没有400架40亿这个资料有没有错误你现在能回答我本席的是说包含的是上面的丑仔科仪那些仪器那你可不可以回答我一台最贵的无人机你们买多少钱你们大概是不是用军规的无人机未来如果你们在执行上你们真的是要用类军规的无人机很少数其中有少数是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
651.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
674.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我記得有請同仁來跟委員主委我要再次強調明天這筆預算就要通過了我們其中有一部分確實是跟國防部一起共同採購其中有一部分確實是那是比較高功能但是我們基本上還是在做徵收我的意思是說我再給主委一個數字好不好如果進城的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
675.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一台啊進程不會進來無人機假如一台外面呢假設的價格是十萬塊啦你這個這些喔你剛剛講的這些這些你說的這些比較高端的無人機一台要將近就像你講要上億的經費啊那海巡署為什麼要購買這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
713.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
上亿的无人机就像你刚刚讲的大实话我们其实海巡他在救难的时候尤其是他在救生救难的时候用军用的无人机去救难我们的舰队我们的舰队要出去救生救难的时候那我们的无人机要赶快先飞上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
713.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在我们未抵达灾害现场的时候无人机侦搜的画面就会回到我们舰艇上面甚至于是我们的指挥中心就了解现场的状况委员这样的一个海空一体的侦搜跟救生救难是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
731.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我們在欠債的部分我們會買非常重要的無人機因為我今天跟主委報告我今天問你的問題你大概沒有一個可以回答的都是很多很空泛的這個內容明天就要通過這樣子的40億採購無人機的特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
750.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
762.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們會給委員很具體的說明那確實如同我剛剛所說請問主委你到底清不清楚你們買的無人機的這些內容跟資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
766.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
783.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我當然了解那有沒有人要幫你回答我請署長來回答好謝謝那基本上我們當然了解那以建載的來講的話它是非常高規格的一種無人機那它是軍事用的嗎不是我們會用來做的那你們剛剛不是說跟國防部配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
784.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
810.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
要一起共同采买的那跟国防部不是买军事的模组化的无人机它上面的功能是借着模组化的一个调配我们的筹载会非常的不一样所以它的功能就非常不一样主委这些都是人民的纳税钱要采买什么东西我觉得都是合理我们都会支持可是就是说你应该要让人民有知的权利而且立法委员在审查预算的时候应该要有明确的资讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
811.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
835.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
明天就要通過這筆預算因為我昨天看到你啊在這個我們的協商的時候你是很認真在守護你們的海巡的預算我們是強烈支持可是你們不能不了解自己的預算裡面到底是含著什麼東西啊絕對不會不了解那還有沒有人可以再詳細的回答我剛剛有問的任何問題我甚至於都已經舉例了畸形譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
835.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
863.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
如果國防部那一台機型大概的金額是多少錢而我們買的也是VBAT的話那我們的VBAT跟國防部的VBAT它模組化的結果我們的功能絕對會不一樣所以加起來金額是你們有買幾台上億的無人機有接近億元的無人機大概會是在這當中譬如說我們的艦載有買幾台大概知道嗎艦載的部分就會比較是高功能的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
864.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是在這個部分我們就會比較是高功能的無人機但是除了無人機的本體以外那我想請教一下有上億的無人機算是軍用等級的嗎在我們這裡的時候我們就不會是用來跟作戰相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
882.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
901.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好所以你们有这个军用类似无人机来去救灾然后不会用来做军事的功能我们不会是一个军事的功能在这里的无人机都没有军事的功能在上面好那需要这个组委后续的时候再把你刚刚讲的那些资料再提供一份报告给本席好的谢谢好谢谢 |