| IVOD_ID |
164256 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164256 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T10:21:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T10:33:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3e68678d272b5e5449ba2ba11b833fe0ade83ed45c59a17eb48780db23e8b7b075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:21:19 - 10:33:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【10月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】） |
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我們請莊部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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部長好 部長我們立法院立法委員如果要主張什麼福利要增加政府的支出我們要負責的提出裁員對不對找到裁員嘛是的 當然要相對的裁員那如果我們要讓民眾有感我們要主張減稅要有稅市評估嘛要看稅損多少 是不是這樣也是的這是一個法律的權利跟義務好 我們來看一下那請問如果我們降稅就財政部長來講你是稅損還是你的稅收會最後會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.949 |
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66.56 |
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这个当然会有税势支出的评估那会不会降了税率反而税收增加如果它能够有其他后续的外溢的效应的话你们举几个例子给我听听看比如说我们对于企业比如说研发支出或者设备投体好 我先告诉你两个例子事实上它产业升级以后它的收入增加税收也会增加这个部长很健康 观念很健康我们看正交税从6%降成3%结果大幅成长 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.877 |
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86.577 |
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香檳比照葡萄酒從20%降為10%本來預估會有將近4500萬的稅損結果反而逆勢成長往下看 你看對不對反而是稅率減稅了 降稅了反而我們的稅收增加了是不是那減稅是不是一定可以增加稅收 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.358 |
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91.46 |
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所以有條件的降稅 條件適合的降稅是可以幫助政府的財政 你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.45 |
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128.799 |
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如果說降稅我們最後能夠回饋到民眾有助於政府的財政條件配合的情況之下是有幫助的我們來看一下我們講加薪減稅是要增加稅收還是要讓人民的薪資提高這個目的加薪減稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
135.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
加薪的話當然讓民眾的收入可以增加那政府的稅收會提高嗎減稅的部分那如果說可以減稅的話當然民眾的租稅負擔會減輕那政府的稅收會增加嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
143.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
政府的税收会增加要看其他各项的因素对我们主要目的让员工的薪水变高他如果精神好心情好生产力加强公司营业和成长政府的税收还是会增加我们来看一下可是中亚企业发展条例当年在103年制定之后结果呢105年106年人数反而不增反减 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
184.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
而且呢到後來由於說當時的修法立法呢要經濟景氣達一定情形的門檻說要連續6個月失業後來呢台灣沒有那麼高的失業率這個條文就沒有用了那麼後來我們在103年的修正把這個拿掉而且呢把減除率提高本來是100對130現在是100呢可以減除175百分之175好 請問新制實施後成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
201.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
有沒有比以前更好因為113年7月才修正所以去年的情況如何這個要再另外做統計我要告訴你多數的企業不太賞光 不太捧場為什麼企業獲利老闆卻不願意幫員工加薪 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
212.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
228.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
為什麼 來我告訴你七月有獲利如果你幫員工加薪員工拿到一萬元的加薪但是老闆還要另外再付什麼勞保健保還有他勞退所以幫員工加薪的效果有很多雇主要付在政府身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
253.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是如果你發獎金的話你有選擇性跟調節性有賺錢就發沒賺錢就不發而且有選擇性哪些員工發哪些員工不發但是如果你加薪就持續而且加薪是個結構你新進員工加資深員工加一定要加所以老闆通常企業不太願意加薪你可發獎金這樣了解了所以為什麼那個法律我們說要加薪可是老闆企業不太配合往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
254.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以如果我們反過來想如果是老闆是企業幫員工他的勞退提撥把它提高你看看差別在哪裡如果你是企業有獲利你幫員工加薪他明年的人事成本就增加了或者你就改選擇發獎金但是員工拿了獎金他還是要繳什麼繳重所稅但是如果你是增加員工的提撥就是僱主本來幫他提最少要提6%如果僱主幫他多提幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果能讓他抵稅 你覺得僱主是比較開心幫員工增加他的勞退提撥啊那個錢先不用付稅嘛 它有遞延效果嘛 對不對所以部長 你這樣直覺判斷如果對員工的勞退 老闆把他增加提撥你覺得可以抵稅的話 會不會比加薪有誘因 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
310.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.953 |
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就是說您指的意思是說如果說他幫他增加提撥的話得以抵稅老闆的6%把他提高多一點8% 9% 10%老闆可以選嘛我今年幫你提8%明年幫你提10%那個如果獲利不好我就幫你提6%你覺得這樣有沒有也有選擇性也有調節性這個對企業來說是他的一個支出啊是的所以說是不是比較有意願比起幫員工加薪他更有意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
356.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
都是他的支出嘛都是可以在他的所得額裡面去扣除啊我知道啦我是說把加薪底稅的加薪改成老闆把這個提撥視為是加薪的話適用在法律裡面你覺得雇主是不是有比較強的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.572 |
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381.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我剛剛您這樣的一個對照比較我知道了解了好往下看所以我們來看一下對員工來講你加了薪你所得稅增加老闆還要什麼勞保健保但是如果員工給你獎金也是要有所得稅增加還要加健保的附加費但是如果老闆幫你多提勞退你沒有應付的稅額也沒有額外的負擔對員工也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
390.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以這個勞退提撥 雇主幫員工多勞退提撥對企業 對員工都是好的所以我們來問一個問題 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
391.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼請問抵稅權 目前的加薪抵稅它的抵稅權可以遞延或有償讓渡嗎譬如說我今天幫員工加薪我要抵稅那你只能適用當年度其實當年度我加了薪之後我的盈餘減少 應付稅減少老闆沒意願但是如果說企業在選擇說我在其他年度我來抵或者說給別的企業來讓渡你覺得遞延跟讓渡這個事情可以接受嗎因為我們現在想修法想聽聽看財政部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
436.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
底稅權 嘉興的底稅權可不可以遞延給企業試用還是它可以有長浪度有沒有理解了我知道 是你覺得可不可以評估一下我們目前的嘉興底稅是沒有遞延的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也不能讓渡可是我企業我的經營同一個時期每個企業的經營榮枯不同我的企業的經營我的時節我的淡忘不同所以如果加薪抵稅讓我可以在企業遞延適用或者說我跟其他的企業我可以做一些讓渡我們可以調節那麼我就不會那麼care說我今年需要抵稅我才去幫員工加薪了解嗎有沒有辦法去評估一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
489.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想這個部分因為跟目前的法制並不相同對 所以我才說我要修法我要問財政部你的意見我想這個部分對您這樣的一個建議我們是不是容我們再研議一下可以 你同意 好好往下看所以說加薪減稅的抵稅權能不能遞你們研究能不能有長浪度你們去研究假設可以有長浪度覺得抵什麼稅對企業主他最有誘因企業主最想抵什麼稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有沒有這邊當老闆的這邊都是公股行庫的都不是自己當老闆雖然是董事長我問你中小企業大概他如果有一定的規模就算未上市他最想抵的是什麼 遺證稅你去看那些受險公司推出的遺產稅的保單有沒有聽過 部長有沒有聽過對不對 但是財政部你一定收到遺產稅嗎通常人家說財政部收到的遺產稅是意外之財 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有些企業家意外不按照時間離開財政部才有機會部長你同意嗎部長因為遺產稅是機會稅是上帝決定的我們一下看所以如果說鼓勵勞工勞退字體增加1%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
556.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不要企業做 政府就來做因為僱主強制提撥至少6%勞工是自願0到6你知道嗎目前勞工自提的 勞退自提的占全部勞工的幾%你知道嗎只有16% |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
還有84%的勞工他的自提他是提零為什麼因為勞工覺得我薪水不夠我幹嘛再自提可是這樣不對啊你現在沒有自提你退休很慘啊不是很慘啊你退休炒個保障啊可是他又不想要多挪現在如果基本工資3萬塊如果政府說我送你300塊送你1%你一定要再自提多1% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
583.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
589.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不管你有沒有自提你只要自提的增加1%以上我就政府定額送你1%你覺得這樣會不會鼓勵一些資淺的低薪的勞工他願意也存個300塊有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
601.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
622.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以我說我們不要政府只要企業主幫員工加薪或自提或勞退我們政府要首先做我們告訴僱主說如果你幫員工提他的勞退我讓你抵稅我不是只有說說而已我政府也以身作則我先編列預算每年編個300億全國900多萬勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
626.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
631.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他就可以有這樣1%的政府的獎勵政府有沒有做過這種事情 有沒有沒有嗎 我告訴你有 來往下看農民退休儲金就是我們農民退休儲金是怎樣農民在基本工資自提1%到10%政府是對等耶 對等耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當年您在財政部這個法律通過的時候是行政院全力支持的小英總統要求的陳其中部長那時候呢在推動的要多少錢你知道嗎一年要多少錢嗎一年要四十幾億對等提撥現在農民不到五十萬參加勞工有九百萬可能數額多一點大概要三百億願不願意幫我們找裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
677.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
705.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
勞退自提參照農民退休處金政府來提供獎勵要不要找個裁員好不好對 另外找 承諾去找好 訴求兩個 主席站起來了請評估僱主替員工提繳勞退超過6%之部位適用加薪減稅的可能性包括我說的遞延性跟讓渡遞延跟讓渡一個月內提出書面報告 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
723.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們是不是時間給我們有三個月的時間可以嗎明年才能適用三個月三個月我們再提出數另外呢加薪抵稅的抵稅前陳地言或有償讓度的可信一併提出來這個是不是可以早一點一個月就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
724.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
739.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
給我們兩個月好嗎好 三個月 兩個月我都聽你的好 謝謝那就這樣子那就拜託部長承諾那也謝謝部長我們做評估是 謝謝主席也謝謝主席謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝宗嘉賓委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員主席各位的習慣 |