| IVOD_ID |
164252 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164252 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T10:05:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T10:15:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:05 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6022c9f6d63255a3060ba6412fb310d4bc4230b8fec4a4bdde83ed45c59a17ebb67a135d127549fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:05:54 - 10:15:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 楊全元發言 邀請代理主委請主委 謝謝我先走 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.22 |
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主席好 我們來討論一下市場的公平性跟集中度的問題因為在全聯併購的大論發之後大全聯那台灣的零售市場正式邁入了高度的一個集中化的時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
34.491 |
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59.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我们也接到了几个供应商的工会的呈请也就是以保障毛利跟比他的其他的通路更便宜两成的合作条件那导致整个中小品牌它的溢价会失衡那在这样情况之下即使你们在去年也开发了两千万 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但是似乎還是沒有辦法去撼動這個市價主導的一個地位因為這個是條件說嘛所以在這樣的情況之下呢公品會你在這個核准的時候呢你有明確要求說三年內不得改變買斷的制度那現在呢已經提前來轉一個方式也就是轉為寄售它本來是買斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.968 |
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111.141 |
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但是呢轉為寄售的這個模式那是不是表示我們公平會你當時所做的約束是兼理私領呢請做說明當初我們付的條件是說不得變更更不利於供貨商的條件所以現在問題就在於說寄售跟買斷是不是對供貨商比較不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.661 |
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127.97 |
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那我們這兩點來講第一個我們去了解結果是這個改成寄售這件事情並不是強制的就是說供貨商仍然可以選擇那第二個寄售跟賣斷各有各的利弊所以有時候很難說你改成寄售就是不利就是不利那不利就違反了我們當初付的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.67 |
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145.748 |
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所以我們會持續去注意就是說改變成寄售這個模式底下他到底是透過什麼樣的一個方法有沒有不公平競爭或是不當競爭的手段如果是他透過這種手段來強迫供貨商改成寄售當然我們就有空間可以介入那如果沒有的話這純粹是商務商彼此之間的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.294 |
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162.947 |
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這是公平會代理主委你現在的說法我們要看的是如果衝擊到整個零售通路的一個結構尤其是讓中小供應商他喪失了溢價的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.609 |
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188.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那就會形成了制度性的一個退場現象我想你也不願意看到有這樣的面向那當然我們是怕說如果在壟斷不斷的在擴大的時候那整個監管的機制是不是應當要更精進 請說明如果是出現委員將來變成壟斷的機制這當然是公平會一個核心的重點 我要去查處 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
188.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
206.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這為什麼他們結合我們要去審查去觀察但是目前看起來即使是全聯或者在整個通路市場裡面看起來是競爭那當然我們也看到新型態的通路進來所以整個市場的競爭程度似乎在提升當中當然我們會不斷的我們會持續去觀察這個通路市場的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
206.878 |
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235.776 |
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主委你讲到这个重点因为我们当然支持我们本土的产业但是要怎么样让大家都能够生存这是公品会你占的角色非常重要的一环因为现在也的确在整个市场这个变化的速度样态是非常的大所以你公品会是不是在通路合作的行为的准则你必须要有一套你的办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.458 |
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245.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你這辦法比如說 揭露費用跟這個罰款那設立著你的訂購持續的一個觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
248.76 |
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276.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
併購或是這個相關的交易條件我們有類似的處理原則當然在公平法裡面併購這個結合這個都是我們審查的重點所以剛剛才會跟委員報告整個通路市場的結構的改變是不是會形成壟斷這個我們一定都是持續在觀察對 所以因為有這樣的陳情跟聲音你們要持續去討論這一個精進方案好 那接下來本席要請教我國深層市的人工智慧相關的競爭法 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
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這個議題那在你們的說明當中你首先首度針對AI產業潛在壟斷跟不公平的競爭來進行這個徵詢這也符合現在時代的一個潮流但是在內容指出說大型的AI公司他當然他有他的能力可以掌控的龐大的算力數據資源跟他的模式這個模型市場優勢 |
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那但是呢如果透過結合跟聯合的行為擴大來壟斷的範圍這就是你的功課囉所以我們看到目前台灣AI的產業還是仰賴整個國際的供應鏈還是仰賴整個國際的供應鏈那如果競爭的範圍我們沒有及時來建立那恐怕這也是本席有憂心的喔也就是恐怕陷入外商吃肉我們台企 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.26 |
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339.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
吃土啦我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們本土的產業他有所政府是他的依靠是他的後盾那這個困境呢在工品會方面你要怎麼樣能夠好好的去盤點台灣產業鏈當中可能的市場集中跟依賴到 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.27 |
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381.964 |
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這些我想 本席認為這是你公平會你開始在徵詢的時候你就必須要有你的KPI指標的結果方向到底是怎麼樣所以建立一個公平跟透明的機制防止大型科技企業介於這樣子的一個生態來壟斷我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.105 |
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411.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
这是我们本土这个AI企业我不希望本身不希望是外商吃肉台企吃土请做说明那个跟委员报告AI的发展非常快速跟动态其实这全世界来讲其实基本上还没有太多国家有针对很具体的针对AI定出很具体的一些法规那我们之所以推出这个公共的征询当然主要的目的就是如同委员所讲的我们希望了解本土的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.966 |
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435.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
到底有没有什么大企业滥用市场力量去排除小企业的竞争对 你在征询大概到什么时候会有一个方向呢我们的征询已经结束了那我们也收集到不少的意见你们从什么时候结束9月7号结束上个月结束那你现在在整合所有的那你整合所有的资料大概什么时候会告诉我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
436.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個我現在沒辦法具體的一個時間點應該會有吧 你有KPI嘛你既然9月7號就已經收集完畢大概一個階段啦那你們應該要選個方向啊會提出一個草案不是草案 提出一個大致的方向對 對 方向啊你大概什麼時候會但是我們會要經過委員會的討論當然 當然 當然你大概呢但是那個時間點我很難跟委員做一個具體的你們委員會什麼時候會開委員會是固定星期三會開啦但是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
固定是每個星期三都會開但是因為AI的問題很多你還是要有一個指標啊因為就像你說的啊AI的產業我們好不容易你們也提出了徵詢在9月7號徵詢完畢那完畢現在整理資料那我們還是期待啊你不能無止盡啊你比如說你三個月可以告訴我們還是多久可以告訴我們一個方向嘛那你也讓本土的產業才不會緊張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
還有所依歸啊 方向啊我們會盡快 我們不會拖太久你的盡快是不會拖太久是多久因為這個有委員會的討論的時程對 當然啊委員會的意見不曉得會如何我沒辦法掌控你應該是兩個月內可以給我們一個方向嘛我們盡快好不好對 兩個月內給我們一個方向嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對不對因為我現在還在重整對重整所以你從9月7號9月7號10月7號11月9號那你應該是在12月初可以給我們一個方向本席說的是方向我們朝這個目標朝這個目標12月初給我們這個方向那最後我給你一個功課我給你一個功課也就是我們針對於預售屋交易的這個部分本席還是非常的堅持因為還是有很多的陳情案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
542.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
在他簽約前他並沒有完整的建造這個銀本那也沒有平面圖也沒有預售屋的買賣契約書還有客戶持分的總表這些關鍵的這個資訊本席認為還是在你簽約之前必須要完整資料才得簽約是不是應當如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
593.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個我們在處理原則裡面都有詳細的規定這些都是他們要提供的就是他必要嘛但是你實務上還是我們有處罰類似的案子有處罰就是表示在整個實務的這個動作當中是沒有落實的所以這一方面請你們加強去宣導好不好不要再讓消費者再有這些陳情嘛保障消費者的一個權益嘛這是你法定要提供的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
594.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對 宣導我們都有在做我們77集都在跟業者宣導這個相關必要提議加強宣導 是是加強稽查 好不好 是是讓消費者可以安心嘛好 謝謝委員謝謝楊瓊英委員的指引 |