| IVOD_ID |
164219 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164219 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T13:00:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T13:15:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6dbaba54f40d20110bc2e7a8918bc9e770febda90f1cdde82d71fa32a71faafad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:00:45 - 13:15:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：壹、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
貳、審查一、行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。三、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。四、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。五、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案。六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。七、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案。八、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。九、委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。十二、委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、委員劉建國等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。十五、委員沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十九、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案。二十、委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二十一、委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【第二十一案，如經復議則不予審查】
【綜合詢答】） |
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謝謝主席這實在是 請不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
欸 部長我還沒有點你欸 我想說你在吃飯我先 先那個好了 先民進黨局何局長好了好 先請何局長局長 我還是先把你的問題我只問一題 所以比較快速你大概講一下 就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
85.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
航空器飛行作業管理規則第36條之二還有第231條大概都有針對飛機的主原因疾病疲勞等可能影響飛安情況進行規範跟處置方式在這一次的事件中這個空姐已經多次表達表達嚴重身體有嚴重的不適那沒有充分休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以他違反了這個法規對不對 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我跟委員報告我們現在看到就是說去了解就是說他出勤的時候我們現在要再確認就是說這一位空服員他在從桃園因為他是從桃園飛米蘭這個部分他是不是屬於身體是適合飛航的那基本上如果根據報告來講他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
說明說他自己不適合飛航那在回程 從米蘭因為他們中間有一個在外站休息嘛25號早上的時候依據報告來講是也沒有報告上也沒有提出說有 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不是的 也沒有提出報告上都沒有續名的對 就是說組員沒提出就是說組員沒有提出來所以如果他有提出應該是可以有一些他只要有提出就會過程對 如果有提出可是這個部分在目前的所以他沒有提出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
175.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
目前的資料上顯示是這樣所以這部分我們會再進一步去了解那在飛機上執勤的時候有表達有不舒服所以有安排他做業務的調整局長我想這樣子啦就是說因為航空業呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
算是一個特許的行業公部門應該理論上可以做監督的力道也大一點我覺得你們應該還是要去做全盤的一個考量然後看怎麼改善相關的勞工環境的改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
謝謝委員 我們這部分會要求長榮做一個深刻的檢討我們也會去根據他的部分我們也會做一個深入調查對 也不只長榮就國際航空都一併做處理好 謝謝局長 局長請回主席我請一下洪思安部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
養委員好 部長好 抱歉 吳委員會吵到大家吃飯的時間都沒有了 所以很抱歉請教一下部長 長榮航空近年來其實有多次被勞動部開罰的紀錄有媒體反映出來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有員工反映公司對於升遷有嚴格的規定就是假如請假就會嚴重影響升遷我想請教一下部長就是對於此案未來行政調查的重點方向會是什麼那有關公司把員工的出行記錄當作升遷的一個標準是不是會是一個調查的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
跟委員說明那當然我們接下來會去調查的部分也包括會對於這些相關的機組員的訪談這部分我們會盡量希望能夠還原這位這位過世的機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
過世的組員他生前所遇到的狀況這是重點那第二個是當然現在大家很關心就是病假尤其是病假因為這次的機組員他其實是身體是有狀況的那病假會不會影響到相關的權益所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想這部分我們當然現在也在做一些檢視那的確我們也不希望說勞工生病那卻必須要硬撐著不休息好像這件事情是被鼓勵的因為這的確是從職場健康的角度來說這是有負面效果的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
過去的確有看到有一些職場的文化變得好像企業是在用他自己內部的機力或者是企業內部治理的機制在鼓勵大家要硬撐可是常常硬撐反而演變成更大的問題或更大的風險這部分我覺得我們也會來正視這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
部長講到病假我有個問題跟部長做個討論部長大概早上部長有講說病假沒收全勤獎金不合理所以未來可能會用制度性要求來保障勞工權益我想要請教一下部長這個想法你是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
怎麼產生的就病假沒收全勤獎金不合理應該是說我如果更清楚再說明假設勞工請一兩天的病假你就把他一整個月的全勤獎金都沒收那我認為這其實是有待商榷也不合理的狀況這有可能會變成剛才說的好像變成制度性去 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
勸阻勞工自己提出站在勞工的立場我們絕對會很希望能夠確保勞工的任何權益可是這邊提醒部長就是說全營獎金它並不是每一家公司都有假如說我們從制度面或法律面來強制併價 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不能扣除全金獎金可能會有很多會有很多公司反而把全金獎金拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
475.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為全勤獎金並不是每一家公司都有我跟文說明他其實這個想法的概念或這個製度保障的概念是來自於其實在蠻多的法院的判決有判決說其實全勤獎金算是勞工工資的一部分所以他在性質上認定的工資的一部分部長 工資的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
跟是不是常態普遍的工資是兩回事對公司有設全景獎金它當然是工資的一部分可是很多公司事實上是沒有全景獎金的是 也有那會不會因為因為我們因為你目前的政策方向是假如請病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
500.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
依然要給全勤獎金所以造成不能把整個月的全勤獎金都沒收因為要不要設全勤獎金並不是法律面可以干涉的是企業自己來做決定那假如說我們的政策方向變成並價不能影響全勤獎金反而會讓很多廣大的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
529.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
558.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是讓企業取消全薪獎金讓勞工反而受損你懂我的意思嗎跟委員對跟委員說明其實我們涉及的因為他有一個前提是因為法院判決不是不是我就講說法院很多法院判決全薪獎金算是工資的一部分那所以因為他是工資的一部分所以其實他也不能夠片面的自己取消是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
563.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
公司不能自己決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
跟委員報告如同委員說的現在的這個全勤獎金因為在法律上實務上面跟行政機關跟司法機關都認定是工資那基本上如果雙方私契約勞動契約已經都約定了有全勤獎金這樣的一個勞動契約的內容那基本上如果一方要變更的話要經雙方同意不是我現在的意思是說他從企業的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
594.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
可能你已經入職的因為勞動契約所以你還是有前進獎金他會不會以後就不給前進獎金懂我的意思嗎他當然是公知的一部分這個沒有任何的爭議只是說我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
632.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在想從制度保障員工權益的時候不能單想一個點就是說單想一個點的風險會讓很多很多人反而死去我們的確現在在考慮的是說比方說你如果是請一兩天的病假假如不是不是我現在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
634.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不是你又不能把整個月也許你要不要說按比例我知道你的意思啦只是說我也了解我們也都一樣是想要保障勞工的權益甚至於是看能不能增加他的福利啦只是說有的政策在推動譬如說我就講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
675.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
全景獎金假如不是每一家公司每一個企業都有假如不是那會不會因為我們把病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
677.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
699.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
請病假不影響前景獎金反而讓很多企業取消他的前景獎金制度啦我現在在講的是這個概念啦就是說整個政策的推出不能夠只看一個點啦我當然希望真的如部長的想法就是一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
701.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
請併價不影響全景獎金另外一方面企業又可以一直維持全景獎金的制度甚至於我更希望每一個企業在穩定發展的路徑中全部都設有全景獎金可是問題是全景獎金設與不設是在企業的決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
728.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
745.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
是在企業的決策我剛才是在提醒部長說你會不會因為請病假不影響到全勤獎金所以影響到企業決策反而損害到原有的勞工權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
763.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
跟委員說我們當然不希望損害到勞工的權益我們會來把委員的提醒我們再把它納入更廣泛的考慮但是我覺得最核心的概念是希望說不要讓企業用一些這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
766.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
789.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
獎懲的方式或者他設計這個獎懲的方式反而讓很多勞工他明明已經生病他其實該請假可是卻不敢請他這個獎懲把把這個事情跟獎懲的連動啦那全新獎金是這個獎懲或者是不利待遇大家認知的不利待遇的某一個例子或一部分可是我們原初的概念是希望這個能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
791.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
817.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
如果勞工真的生病該請假休息就讓他請假休息不要釀成更大的問題這個當然 任何的遺憾都不是我們設計的概念出發點會是來自這個事情但是委員的提醒我們也把它納入來思考就是說很多有關政策面也好 法律面也好要去做的都不能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
838.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
譬如說我就講說不是每一個企業都設有這個獎金當然他設的獎金他就變成工資的一部分可是不能反推說他原本就是他的工資因為這個是企業決策如果有設的話就是工資的一部分可是要不要要不要設 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
841.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
856.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
要不要設 並不是法律可以干涉的那我的擔憂是會不會 我在提醒部裡面說會不會我們為了要保護勞工所以把請病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
858.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
878.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
不可以扣他的前景獎金反而讓契約政策轉變把原本的前景獎金取消我在講的是這件事整個政策面的推動也好 法律面的修正也好有的時候必須要顧慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
880.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
894.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
到整體性然後是不是有辦法真正的強制到企業去做到落實勞工的原意好不好謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |