| IVOD_ID |
164207 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164207 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T12:33:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T12:44:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6040cc7ae1bcac9c5bc2e7a8918bc9e77b6741136213cfef6156fa8563f3c78f45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅廷瑋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:33:29 - 12:44:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：壹、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
貳、審查一、行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。三、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。四、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。五、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案。六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。七、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案。八、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。九、委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。十二、委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、委員劉建國等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。十五、委員沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十九、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案。二十、委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二十一、委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【第二十一案，如經復議則不予審查】
【綜合詢答】） |
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致詢發言謝主席有請部長有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
16.704 |
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35.51 |
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路人好部長好部長我們今天討論這一個題目是非常非常的遺憾去年的勞動部今年的長榮去年的謝宜龍今年是長榮部長我再講一次去年勞動部今年是長榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.69 |
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63.943 |
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去年謝宜龍今年是長榮我想我們要請部長不要忘記自己是因為什麼原因才能夠接任部長勞動部是勞工朋友的大家長請您接任部長就是希望可以處理霸凌的問題而不是讓任何形式的霸凌問題一而再再而三的一直不斷的發生到底是企業的文化還是制度的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.875 |
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81.836 |
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難道現在的請假制度這樣的設計不是一種霸凌嗎我想這次職安法的修法我們可以看到對於高風險的行業要求需要有風險評估涵蓋的一個辨識所有潛在的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.737 |
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105.191 |
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我們都希望評估危害的這個風險並且能夠依評估的結果採取適當並且有一個預防改善的一個措施這包含建立預防計畫進行風險分級的管理以及定期更新的一個評估報告我要先問一下部長請問一下你認為航空業是不是高風險行業 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
109.364 |
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122.918 |
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要從安全的角度還是從哪個角度都可以從非安的角度因為風險要看是討論是哪種風險不要說非安的風險不然這樣子我更明確的跟您請教您知道空服員的職務可能引起的職業病嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.83 |
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140.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
相關的種類空服員的植物的確他在這個一些肌肉骨骼上面的疾病這部分其實我們也非常關注我想我們可以看到空服員在這個高壓輪班長時間時差然後緊急應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
143.925 |
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162.206 |
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沒有健康的管理甚至容易導致過勞睡眠不足免疫力下降慢性病惡化猝死的風險都極高那我要問的是說從您上任到現在到最近這過程當中工會有沒有跟你接觸過或者是反應過 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.945 |
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177.997 |
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工會當然這段時間其實有些不同的議題有沒有反映過相關的他們的人力上的一些被剝削我跟董事長說明我自己其實親自就訪視過航空業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
181.119 |
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207.026 |
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基層的員工那他們遇到職業病或者是職災的問題我自己親自就訪視過那也跟他們來做了解這樣子我自己就訪視過了我還是要希望說您一定要重視這些基層的我們所有的勞工朋友那目前看到這樣的問題我還是要再次的提醒那部長 治安法的健康保護四大計畫請問一下您知道是哪四大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
211.155 |
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235.031 |
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不罰侵害不罰侵害母性健康保護異常工作負荷過勞預防我想這些四大計畫當中我們要清楚明確知道長榮航空有沒有制定老傑有沒有查就我們知道長榮應該是有制定相關計畫有查到有制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.178 |
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260.104 |
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那職安法23條要求僱主職業安全衛生管理計畫其中含工作環境或作業危害的一個辨識評估控制長榮有沒有做危害評估有沒有落實老建有沒有去看有或沒有沒有看就說沒有沒關係跟委員報告齁那個在檢查的部分安全衛生是一定會看到這部分的危害評估不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個安全衛生管理計劃委員是講那個危害評估的部分是指這一次的檢查嗎這一次檢查或是歷年來的檢查他有沒有制定沒有 我們在107年有發現他有在這個部分沒有做到那個危害的評估這個部分到現在有沒有嘛那這一次的檢查 107年不要說嘛這一次的檢查因為他部長上任到現在嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
295.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這次的檢查因為剛剛部長提到我們還要再進一步去了解會做這部分不像107年你說沒有嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
297.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
323.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
剛剛你說的嘛那107年沒有有沒有糾正他要去把他執行我們這部分我們再去了解好不好但通常這麼大的公司他其實應該要有我們也希望他有但107年你說有嘛那你應該要直接給我回應107年糾正以後他應該要有107年的時候沒有他有違反這個但是現在近期我們再把資訊弄清楚這麼多年我們不可能查到他沒有就這樣結束吧一定會輔導他變成要有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
324.281 |
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352.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那所以我應該是聽到你應該要具體的回答我107年沒有但後面幾年我們糾正他完我們現在去確認而不是到現在還要確認我們現在去確認部長我沒有要責備但是我們都在檢討問題探討問題然後希望能夠揪出問題那本案的空服員我們現在雖然是在非執行勤務的時間去病逝但他的病因跟職務是否有相關可否認定是職災這部分勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這部分會做專業當然這部分我們會做專業的調查但是因為是否職災或是否職業病這大概有一個比較專業的認定但是這部分我們會來重視他們的權益那長榮航空規定空服員若三個月內請假含特休超過三天隔月及上司選班及選假的資格多次請假還需提改善計畫這樣的制度讓員工不敢生病不敢請假形同變相的懲罰請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這是否有違反勞基法保障之請假權又將如何防範相關的企業升遷、績效、制度、懲處依法請假的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
395.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟我們說明 如果長榮航空有拒絕勞工請病假的話這當然就違法勞基法當然是 當然但是他剛剛是說變相懲罰他是用制度讓他們沒辦法去選假還有選班是 因為這部分我們的確現在聽到蠻多機組員都反映這個狀況對所以我們現在的確也在檢討 比方尤其是現在大家特別關注病假的部分那是不是有因為請病假而有這些不利的對待的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
424.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那就像我們大概先做幾個層次第一個層次是我們先看到最多在其他的企業裡面我們不要看到像全勤獎金來作為一個獎懲的這樣子的使用那的確我們做了一些研議跟檢討我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
451.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
勞工請併價不應該就沒收整個月的全勤獎金的這個狀況那這部分我們會來面對全勤獎金這個部分您有所作為嗎我們會來提出一些制度性的辦法現在是這個選辦跟選價的一個資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
477.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是不是也應該一併列入相關的檢討然後去建議企業甚至是防範企業有這樣子的一個規範因為請病假的樣態蠻多的然後不利被認知為不利對債的樣態比較多所以我們這部分我會請我們的調評師我們相關的業務單位其實來做一個比較綜合性的檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
479.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
500.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
另外我要再請問一下因為今天職安法預計就要開始進行逐條雖然是到第二條但是長榮航空相關的一個事件檢討要不要納入這一次職安法的修法內容後續針對院版勞動部會不會提出修正動議這部分您覺得呢哪一個部分長榮航空所引發的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
514.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們在做相關的一個檢討的時候會不會有剛剛所說的選假 選班這些利用制度來漠視這些勞工的請假權然後把它列入到法案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
515.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
544.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們現在就像剛剛說針對權情的部分的相關的權利其實我們現在也在研議幾個路徑我們希望能夠有效的保障可是幾個有效的路徑不一定一定是在這一次的修法裡面保障可是我們來會找到一個比較制度性能夠保障的方法 重點要有效朝委都已經要進入這樣子的一個豬條討論的時候我覺得如果有機會入法當然是最好的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
545.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
559.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我覺得我們要來看是要處理什麼樣的問題然後當然原本治安法有他的一套治安法的體制然後這個治安法的體制的框架裡面適不適合來做這方面的修訂我覺得這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
560.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
587.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我覺得大家可以來討論我們當然探討討論那今天也是藉由這個機會為其發聲最後30秒我想職場霸凌案依保訓會的規定公務員可向保訓會再申訴勞工卻無法向地方勞動機關再提救濟只能訴諸法院我想部長這樣的制度落差是否剝奪了勞工公平的權益我想勞工向職場申請的這個職場霸凌調查總不能公司自己調查自己吧依專章規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
607.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
職場霸凌的調查小組要外聘委員但多少事業規模以上要外聘委員部長有沒有想法外聘委員的比例要不要超過二分之一外聘委員要不要專家背景外聘委員我們會設定要二分之一我想霸凌的調查案很容易成立但是需要有外聘委員的時候對於這些專家的量能夠不夠勞動部有沒有資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
610.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
629.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
提供這些企業我們其實現在正在培訓然後希望能夠把這些有資格來做外聘委員的這個人才庫給建立起來第二個剛剛講到地方政府的部分現在並不是沒有跟地方政府的救濟單位其實如果勞工認為企業主在調查的過程裡面有程序上面的為師的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
630.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
646.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其實可以依照職安法39條來邀請地方政府的勞政單位來去做勞檢檢查來去確認程序上面是否合乎法規如果不合乎法規的話也必須重啟調查好今天主席站起來了那我們就先討論到這邊謝謝 |