| IVOD_ID |
164169 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164169 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T11:29:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T11:35:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6f767810575776d9db030ba4996051aea92e8362d61d61ef2ee4908f1f42fde8f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:29:26 - 11:35:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。） |
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調查局局長 |
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11.977 |
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37.764 |
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好 局長你好 局長這本書你應該知道嘛你當天有參加這個新書的發表會就是國安三法有有那天新書發表會總長有邀請我去好 那我想你那時候也有提到這本書你說這是給第一線非常好的一個工具工具書因為國安不只是要保護人民也要說清楚什麼是違法的對不對就讓第一線的人可以 |
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可以能夠遵循但是我們看一下上次總統大選有很多里長帶團到大陸回來之後就被大量的搜索約談扣手機甚至後來有一些人還被起訴說他協助中共介入台灣的選舉然後這是違反反滲透法結果我現在查了判決無罪的比例非常非常的高 |
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64.413 |
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88.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我有整理一下 你們可以看一下這個內容無罪有十二件那一審有罪有四件但是其他更有非常多的案子是不起訴處分所以今天的主題很簡單就是反滲透法怎麼用尤其是你身為調查局局長你今天是調查機關的大家長更應該能夠理解否則我們的人民在選舉期間去大陸旅遊會不會回來就被抓不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
106.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以這個問題就在這裡嘛 如果你說回來被抓 不會但是那麼多人 牽結 不起訴 判無罪那這個就不是回來就被抓嗎好 謝謝委員 容我來簡單的說明一下簡單說就好對 我們反滲透法 其實它要處罰的是受中共 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
122.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
只是委託資助那以這個案例來講的話要處罰的是揪團的人而不是參團的人所以剛剛委員所提到的這些民眾他回來其實他是以證人的身份來這個可能接受檢察官的傳喚來作證 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
委員可以看到這裡面有罪的 其實都是揪團的人沒有一個是因為參團的理名而被判刑的沒有我跟你講啦 這個一個行為啦大量的牽結不起訴無罪那你們的處理方式就有問題了否則為什麼會立案調查為什麼會移送為什麼會最後讓檢察官起訴來判無罪你不要跟我說你們在處理上面都沒有問題那我請教你一個非常簡單的問題啦如果不違反選罷法會不會成立反滲透法第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
反滲透法第七條它的底罪就是要違反選罷法好 所以我們很簡單了解就是反滲透法第七條其實說明得非常清楚必須要違反選罷法第五章之罪才有可能成立對不對是好 那這次大陸旅遊裡面有一些國台辦跟團員這個私下 私下講兩岸一家親和平統一或者是我看到有很多民眾拿著卷來找我找我們陳情我發現調查官就一直磨一直磨一直磨磨到他講出這一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
講出這句話 有啦他們私下有跟我們講說兩岸一家親他抓的這個點就要移送這些人我要跟你講就是今天這個東西是不應該的另外我再跟你講一下就是其實最近在你們在這本書有兩個最新的判決無罪判決沒有放進去就是有提到這兩個很重要的點我現在跟你說 第一個政治傾向的口號不能夠代表會選所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
口號不是要求你要特定的投票所以函宣跟動員也無關這個沒有利益對價關係的其實根本就談不上反省策法請你告訴所有的調查官要注意這個標準司法不能毫無標準 不能如此空泛不能讓現在大量的遷解及判無罪大量的遷解及判無罪 那我就會請教你那你們為什麼要發動這個偵查你要知道民眾遇到偵查是下的半死 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那這些都是無辜的民眾你知道這些人被你們找去之後回家家人都怕得半死鄰居看到他都不敢講話這個是我們不應該的地方所以我再請教你這本書出來之後請問一下調查局有做什麼樣的教育作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們大概因為這本書剛出來那我們有發給我們的個外勤但不是每個人都有大概主要是負責國安業務的這些幹部大概要研閱一下比較能夠快速這本書主要是收錄反滲透法國家禁閉保護法還有一個因為時間關係因為時間關係我有去跟各個調查官都有打聽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
目前麻煩你們既然輸出來了你也說這個東西給第一線非常重要是請排入教育訓練好嗎是可以可以謝謝謝謝委員能夠把那個教育訓練的那個那個一些相關的期程或什麼樣的計畫給我們一下沒有問題讓我們了解不要再讓亂抓人變成下一次選舉前的的一個大問題絕對不會亂抓人所以這個課程課綱失之對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
330.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
討論的內容要給我們一下因為我認為司法是講求事實講求證據不是臆測不是偵查人員主觀判斷而且制度一定要存在不能靠人的自律人的自律是沒有意義的報委員就您提到了這個那個揪團去大陸旅遊的這個有最新的兩個判決請委員可以參考一下就嘉義地方法院跟屏東地方法院的一個兩個最新的判決一個是判決有期徒刑四年一個是判決有期徒刑四年半沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
331.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一定很多有罪 但是我現在告訴你有罪的他們罪有應得沒有問題我現在是說大量的牽結跟無罪你也讓這些民進黨的委員也倒霉啊因為很多人無端被抓 他們就背原罪啊所以我的意思不是有罪 有罪人反而罪有應得破壞國家安全我也痛恨 但是不是破壞國家安全的人不要隨便抓我請教一下 那個書的作者是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
最高檢 最高檢要排入教育訓練不要有圖利作者就好了不會啦 這個是公家的都是檢察官檢察官河邊的當天出公告的時候他也有在我怕那個書是我們什麼人出的我出的嗎那你出的沒關係 列入列入不會啦 這個最高檢啦我們也邀請過委員到我們調查局來演講過你不然再上一本給我們看謝謝主席 |