| IVOD_ID |
164144 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164144 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T11:04:24+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T11:16:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6c0bc31be253c562097bc26f8a2da105892e8362d61d61ef2e845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:04:24 - 11:16:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【10月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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谢谢主席我请主席长我们请陈主席长 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.628 |
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42.161 |
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主席早我想今天大家都非常關心喔就是剛剛很多委員都談到的是才化法才化法在去年年底通過到現在已經十個月了這十個月我剛剛聽到主席講說有關事權還在修法還在討論我想請問這一年了去年年底通過去年四月我們就提案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.541 |
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56.526 |
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行政院非常清楚立法院的態度我們這對法法本來就要修正你們也是說要去統合事權要做修法但是從通過到現在整整十個月這十個月是在睡覺嗎這十個月現在還在告訴我們說我們還要再去討論然後前天才聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.632 |
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76.593 |
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行政院說我要提版本主席長我在這邊已經講了請你們提版本講了不下百次了是你們什麼時候提版本現在還在做事權修法這一年都在睡覺嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.292 |
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96.454 |
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这个部分要分两个部分一个是你有没有睡觉还是他们在睡觉像才化法的部分主要主动在裁员的垂直和水平所以不关你的事是 这比较不是不是你的事但是才化法的版本里面有关相关分配的就是你的事了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
97.61 |
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124.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對然後裡面包括譬如說一般性補助所以你今天要告訴我的是你沒有睡覺他們都在睡覺所以他們到現在沒有把事權搞清楚還在討論是嗎不是現在我要針對就是說譬如說一般性補助和計劃性補助這個部分都是事權都是屬於地方一半的事項那我們就來討論一下你們所說的這個這個行政院現在在說他們要提修法版本有找你討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
149.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
有說副院長財政部主計總處要討論要在期待的時間跟地方溝通後提出完整的版本這個在我上一次總質詢的時候卓榮泰院長手上拿著說我的版本在這裡我就要拿出來到現在沒看到現在又說要去找一方政府所以表示院長那時候拿在手上的版本是騙人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.824 |
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166.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
沒有 他事實上已經提過很多次提過很多版本但是就是不想給立法院知道不是 提過很多版本但是後來又接受很多委員的一個建議他有把一些的一個涉算值又把它加進去所以目前的一個部分所以主計長 我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.994 |
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184.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在反正你們怎麼說都是行政院在說啦現在說要提案我們樂觀其成但是我要問的是現在已經十月了地方政府明年的預算都編了送到各地的縣市議會了如果是你是地方的主計長請問你要怎麼編他們的稅務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
187.975 |
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203.617 |
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目前為止就是不知道 懸額未決10月了沒有人知道他們明年的一般性補助款還有相關的這些補助款要怎麼編你告訴我你是地方主席長你怎麼編 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
204.383 |
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228.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
目前的话我们一般性补助款和计划性补助款我们已经连续开了三次的会所以他们都会编了都知道而且明确的告知哪些项目应该放在地方项目你都告诉他了但是你现在做的一个很严重的事你总预算送来的时候我们清楚的看到你的一般性补助款还是维持在2500亿但是它的内容已经变了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
從一般性用公式計算的補助方式換成了所謂的計劃性的然後另外把計劃性應該是兩千多億兩千九百億把它降成只有三百零八億其他都要要求地方政府用一番補助款這是移花接木啊主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
273.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這些相關的學者已經講得非常清楚了這是一種偷換概念嚴重的影響到地方自主最嚴重的是請問你修正中央對地方補助辦法有沒有按照行政院的相關規則在研擬法律跟法律法規命令草案的時候預告60天有還是沒有我們依照規定是不需要預告不需要預告為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
275.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以都不需要告訴任何人所以行政院不需要告訴任何人你們偷偷修了這個辦法包括立法院所以你們也沒有告訴立法院是嗎複製立法院所以立法院現在要把這個辦法拿來做審查接下來審查如果不按照你們原來的辦法之後你打算怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
319.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因为一般性补助款是在均衡地方的一个财政的一个方式所以这个办法是你随便可以动的嘛那如果立法院将来把这个授权条款拿掉了不让你随便动了你现在边的预算全部要作废对吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
319.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
343.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是 因為這必須要整個影響到因為115年度已經沒辦法有一些早就已經知道的問題不應該這樣偷換概念偷偷的做又造成了兩院之間很大的衝突接下來總預算就要進所謂要不要復違還是要不要復翼 要不要退回了你這些動作只會讓這件事情更雪上加霜 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
354.462 |
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我要問的是好 地方政府就受到影響的他們也不知道怎麼辦那你說他們已經知道了所以你們就是一個獨裁政府是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
355.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不是这个部分呢因为这本身是属于地方应该办的事项那包括计划型的补助因为以往都是申请所以我们现在也改很多把它简化变成说你就是把本来应该就是他们的钱先用计划性的名字叫他们要用那边的钱去挪嘛就这么简单嘛可是问题是计划型补助和一般性补助都是属于县市应办的事项同意所以这才是我们修裁划法的主要的原因对 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
384.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
399.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因为就不要让中央变成要仰仗中央的脾气看中央的脸色本来是他的事情就让他好好做但是你们这样的方式扭曲了立法的原意立法院是原来要保障他们的一般性补助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
400.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
422.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在他們的範圍之內不受到影響可是你們用這樣的方式讓很多的計劃性補助款變成用一般性補助款造成地方上面很大的反彈我覺得這不是一個國家的政府應該做的事啊大大方方的出來跟大家說清楚包括立法院現在你弄到立法院要來審你的辦法當我們說完這個辦法之後你連這些相關將來的調節都沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
426.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
452.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那就是你們到時候最痛苦的時候主席講 我要說的是不要再做這些事了不要再做這些小動作了但是一般性補助款也是屬於縣市應辦的事項是 那就大大方方跟立法院溝通呀而不是偷偷的去修一個辦法然後沒有告訴任何人啊是 因為我們也是不得不的做法你不得不 好 我再問最後一次這是你的決定還是行政院長的拍板決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
453.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這是我們同仁演繹出來的你們同仁演繹出來給行政院所以這是行政院的立場好 接下來就是如果現在這禮拜也許這兩天或下個禮拜我們就要針對總預算因為沒有編軍人加薪因為沒有編警消停降退休金所以現在有可能會退回總預算一樣你要怎麼善後 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
482.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你為什麼不編還是你編了被行政院打槍把你拿掉裁劃法立法院通過你們編然後居然加薪你們不編請問標準是什麼他這個部分呢涉及到整個制度標準不知道標準是什麼我問你的法律上的標準是什麼裁劃法合憲所以你們自己認為合憲就可以編然後居然加薪你們認為違憲就不編是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
511.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
538.095 |
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不是這個部分的因為軍人加薪他涉及到整個一個整個新級制度的一個公平性的一個問題行政單位叫做依法行政不管怎麼樣就是一個公告你在這邊也說過了你的做法就是依法行政公務人員只能依法行政現在的是接下去假如假如任何一個公務人員來提告政府要不要給錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
541.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現行法是合法的那他來提告你有義務這是法定義務之處啊主席長你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
552.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
581.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
这个部分如果我们请求那个就是要求视线所以所有的人都不能动视线结果来做编列主席长我的意思是说沟通很重要如果你们要偷偷这样修办法只是增加更多的冲突好接下来我问一下我们去年编的总预算今年收入的状况如何到十月份好像收入短促是吗收支短促根据财政部表示他是说今年可能没 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
581.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
目前的稅收不足可能没有办法达到预算数到现在的时间9月的净值来看好像预算只达成75%然后目前维持的执行状况大概有4000亿的转促也就是说有可能收不到那么多税入但是我们又多了非常多的支出所以去年我们的预算暴增到3.1兆然后我们宽估了非常多的税入那现在钱收不来 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那現在我們已經把因為特別預算的關係又把所有的稅基剩餘給花光了是吧沒有114年預計有剩餘1500多億那扣掉我們要還債的1400億明年你們已經要取債了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
627.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
对 但是我现在是谈114年114年度它是有剩余的那剩余扣掉还债1415亿之后还剩下164亿所以要看今年一个整个一个在今年以前都叫做超增在今年以后叫做取债 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
677.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
而且赖清德时代要把蔡英文累积的所有的税基剩余几乎快要花光了也没有会剩多少还没有2.9那税基剩余现在还有多少税基剩余现在是没有以115年那不就是花光了吗没有因为举债额度是40%我问的是税基剩余已经没有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
678.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
695.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就是我們把他留下來的資產全部已經清空了甚至還要取債了所以我希望預算預算的預估要準確每一年不是超徵就是短促這顯然我們的儲計單位有點問題好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好我希望你們盡快的把相關財劃法的版本不管如何在今年現在正在審預算期間要趕快送來否則就會照著我剛剛講的總預算退回對行政院是非常不利的 |