| IVOD_ID |
164141 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164141 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T10:44:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T10:55:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6e678ded01a531498bc2e7a8918bc9e7792e8362d61d61ef24a35e1cf326b66635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:44:15 - 10:55:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：壹、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
貳、審查一、行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。三、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。四、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。五、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案。六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。七、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案。八、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。九、委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。十二、委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、委員劉建國等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。十五、委員沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十九、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案。二十、委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二十一、委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【第二十一案，如經復議則不予審查】
【綜合詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝 謝謝劉昭偉那我請部長 洪部長來 請部長還有我們的民航局局長請局長還有郭威中我們議事司議事司郭威中 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
專委好 部長您今天的職安法修訂是有四個主題嘛一個是職場霸凌啦什麼沿途管理啦什麼轉包的啦這些嘛還有綜華 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好 我問你 因為我最近接了很多軍醫院的投訴那我要問你就是在財團法人醫院跟社團法人醫院他的員工都全部都是勞保嘛所以你們管理沒問題 你們治安管理那在軍醫院跟國家醫院就是那個教育部的醫院裡面有公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
業聘人員這兩套人馬你們是怎麼管理如果產生霸凌的事情的時候一個是用公務人員一個是用勞動部這邊在醫院裡面都可以適用治安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
116.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
都是用治安法好那這些軍醫院的就是用職權上來壓迫或者是用言語在霸凌那這些業聘的人員早上都七八點就打電話來這樣走走走啦我請問劉俊國前輩可能你也有收到喔有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
129.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以這 他們的投訴的話 加上投訴 因為雙保險啊搞到投訴之後 再跟劉建國投訴這樣 會比較穩那這個 你們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
像委員講這個案例他的這個身份的話基本上其實都是可以適用治安法的對那在這次裡面我們當然就是用這個職場霸凌專章的方式那如果他遭受到的是職場霸凌的狀況所以我們也把職場霸凌的定義那也包括該處理的程序也包括對於申訴人的保護其實這次也都放到我們職場霸凌的專章裡面所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不過我要求他們院方檢討也沒什麼下文很想開記者會但是又怕傷到因為同樣是異界的人給他傷及無辜所以這個要不要去查一下法輪部應該治安署知道了吧到現在不知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
如果你有相關的案件當然可以轉給我們那當然我們可以來看他是屬於不法侵害還是職場霸凌那依照其實相關的程序我想就依照法治的程序來處理包括調查包括處置因為現在護理師護理人員缺的一塌糊塗大家都瘦命命過了過不去比較有可能再這樣這種事情的腐朽實在是無法想像所以金醫院今天金方隊員要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以選手這邊要去查一下你把相關的案件我把資料轉給你好 那再來就是沿途管理跟轉包的事情這些轉包的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為我們的一個案子那甲子營造廠 超甲子營造廠來裱 一定會轉包嘛如果不轉包 吊車啦 什麼啦 這些都很貴的東西嘛所以轉包 或是請外面的人來做一個請外面的吊車 什麼 這種的你們的管理你們是怎麼管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
300.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你聽我的意思啦跟委員說明第一個我們其實也是檢視現階段的法規裡面看到在這個階段裡面我們的現在現在的法規業主是沒有責任的所以這一次業主是業主業主比方說對就比方說過去終結事件的業主是新復發新復發就是業主是沒有責任的可是其實業主在整體的這個案件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
303.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
328.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
資本的投入或者是經費的投入上面他們其實才是最主導者所以應該要讓業主科與這些相關如果資安發生的話或者是防治的責任那我們會從這個角度來去做相關的這個也要求要有一定的所以像那個案子就是終結這個案子是新戶發戶最後完全之責任是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
329.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
358.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其實包括包商也會有可是我們過去的職安法的規定會讓常常變成最後追究責任者是最底層的那個包商最底層的那個包商然後業主最上面其實他的財力也好他公司規模他對整個案場的主導性的規模更大的業主都沒有責任我們覺得這是不合理的所以才在這次修法裡面把業主的責任放進來那我問你這一件案子新募發最後處理的有沒有完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
還是什麼都塞塞給客人然後客人幫我倒就糟糕了這樣是不是這樣包含這個以現行的法律確實業主是沒辦法在治安法裡面科以責任沒有辦法所以現在修法有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟文說明我們認為如果要把職場的安全做好的話其實業主願意投入一定的經費這個是安全的投資很重要今天如果業主不願意對於安全進行投資的話下面的包商下面執行的人怎麼做都很難符合大家的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以業主要有一定的責任他願意投入一定的成本在這個上面來讓下面的包商有經費能夠好好把安全的問題給做好所以這時候為什麼要把業主的角色在這次修法給拉出來這次是關鍵這個非常重要啦因為你入住你就是要負前輩的責任你要勇敢承擔 勇敢面對嘛不可以塞塞給你的轉包 轉包 轉包這一個工頭他怎麼會領著人家幫你付錢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
453.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
啊你吊車 車吊車比較貴的一隻幾六億你當然也是要額外繳 繳來出事你親吳啊 你才負最後的完全責任所以這件事情處理得不漂亮還是有完善因為法規上面的限制所以變成我們很難對業主進行相關責任的追究啊那這次修法要把它完善喔當然好 再來我請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
458.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個長榮這個事件大家都已經這兩天問到要怒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
460.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
484.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我要說的是steel disease這個病是一種自體免疫的疾病這種自體免疫疾病是基因的問題後天的問題但是這種自體免疫疾病一定會如果是日夜顛倒或者高壓或者是生理失蹤破壞它會加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
486.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
509.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
家中會腎臟有問題 會血管發炎甚至會猝死都有所以這個發生這種不幸 大家都很不敢你如果說要職業我們每一年都有做職業傷害的像機師他就做運動性練徒甚至於做核子醫學SALIM scan等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
510.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這些空無言事實上他們也是高強度日夜顛倒你在你的職業每一年的例行檢查這一些奇怪的這些要用點心思啦這要找出來這種人不適合做日夜顛倒的工作所以這個發生這種事大家都斷不掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以可以加賣這比較重要就是說他的每年我們一般每年勞工的那個檢查都是大概一些routine的嘛驗血、驗尿、X光那沒有啦那個驗不出來什麼東西啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
553.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
包委員有關於這個健康檢查的部分剛剛委員關心的這部分那如果說針對這個空服員他在這個執行上是不是有特殊的檢查項目我們這次也要蒐集國外的一些資料來調整我們現在健檢項目針對空檢的人那這邊剛剛委員講說這個如果這個這個同仁有這樣的問題的話其實在目前的法規裡面有規定雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
599.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在一開始的針對空服員的身體健康狀況要做適性的配供在目前現行的法令就有這樣規定所以這個你要會同醫師來做這些不同職業的有些職業變成像胸腔的 什麼會細症等等都有在做特殊那這個應該要納入所以這樣 衛生部有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
604.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
629.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
民航局局長你不要講一下你想到底在管理還是沒有那個 謝謝委員剛剛提示到的有關那個組員的健康管理的部分確實有一些疾病其實是醫療上面的專業那我也會 剛剛委員的建議就是說有關勞動部或者是這個跟這個相關醫師單位來訂這個的時候我們民航局也可以來加入一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
651.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為我知道機師 副機師他們好像半年就要做一次運動訓練圖一有問題就抓起來做核子醫學諸如此類的空服員這邊是生理時鐘都打壞這一種的有一些自體免疫的那些相次 項目找專家來看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
651.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
678.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
不然的話這個雖然病例不多但是偶爾都會發現那這種常常會造成遺憾的事情那這樣如果說他已經不舒服了他跟他的長官講跟他的座艙長講他到底是怎麼處理我們也不知道啦這個你們要再調查所以這一塊我希望我們部裡面要看看怎麼來做好好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
681.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
690.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
當然這是在我們勞工 醫改這要做什麼 我可以幫忙看可以找人來做一些特殊的 好不好謝謝委員 |