| IVOD_ID |
164131 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164131 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T10:29:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T10:42:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d759c3dbefb57db6ff59c4b0e9a1036c1d8817d393176c43fda6f2d8e3477dae3c1d51a46f3598f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:46 - 10:42:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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我們請陳部長 |
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31.034 |
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這位來保障人民飲用水的這個安全而且化解民眾的疑慮這個烏山頭水庫檢測出陰離子介面活性劑這個到目前我看農業部的講法是用可能你們也沒有把握是不是 |
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49.853 |
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你們是希望大家不要亂猜可是又沒有把握什麼意思沒有 這不是有沒有把握的問題我第一個就是我們檢測出來的這些這個陰離子介面 活性介面劑本身大概0.03到0.07之間跟我們的灌溉水質標準5毫克 |
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差太遠了 所以這個基本上是安全的第一個說明比較微量啦 可是現實出現嘛 那現在就是不要用可能他到底怎麼來 他只有兩種可能嘛一種就是清洗對不對一種是天然的嘛 我們先看 這個很重要是因為我們找到的是從你農水署定名烏山頭水庫的水質顏色 這是你自己自己檢查出來的嘛 對不對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
吳山頭開始做的光電是在111年隔年開始檢測出來有就你講的是微量可是你看112年的4月份有檢測出來到了8月份又有7月份沒有怎麼會時有時沒有有時候有有時候沒有到了113年的時候3月份又檢測出來了9月份又檢測出來了到了114年4月份又檢測出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
152.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
就表示第一個 保定第一個在設的光電板之後的連續三年都有出現我跟維銘報告不能這樣下結論我們今天是要解決問題的你不要急著應變你這樣講會造成誤解我只要說一句話就是你如果認為這個0.03是因為清潔劑造成的那他大概要用12噸的清潔劑才能洗出這個濃度 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
175.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
重點不在用多少 重點有檢出嘛 那你要印證所以這是背景值 這一個非常重要的你要做一件事情 對民眾來講 你要化解他的疑慮對不對你是天然的或者是人工的 拿去檢測不就可以出來了嗎你為什麼不去送檢測 你現在跟民眾講的是說來源是可能是水庫中的藻類一個代謝物 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
202.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在是理性物質科學對 我也理性 因為我學科學的我們檢測的這個陰離子活性界面劑就是有機物如果融於水以後會產生負離子所以負離子會跟其他的原類做結合所以它是由非常非常多的有機物都有可能產生的然後在自然界裡面最主要是動物或植物的屍體它如果經過腐壞了以後所生產出的有機質 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你現在在說理論嘛所以你提的就是可能可能是嘛所以我說今天要化解最簡單的就是拿去檢測博定先確定一個原則應該今天化解那個疑慮嘛不要用拆或者用你們講的可能它是可以檢測出來對不對那你就是今天公開承諾跟大家講趕快送去檢測檢測什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
檢測你現在這個到底怎麼來啊到底是天然的還是你說的可能這個沒有辦法去因為它是一個所謂的陰離子那個活性介面劑它就是一個離子形態你不能說證明說喔它是它是天然的它是合成的這做不到天然的都檢測不出來喔那你怎麼敢講說是天然的現在還可以檢測啊來我跟你講第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
252.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
272.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
來來我們有很多種檢測方式嘛我剛剛給你看的是你設了之後有出現雖然是微量有嘛對不對那你就拿去檢測檢測說這個他的來源到底是哪邊來的你不用可能第二個我們再更進一步來做一個如果說有第三個單位可以檢測的數字來來來否定還有一個方法啦還有一個方法你之前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
294.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你送第三方去檢測嘛這就是最科學 物質科學的對不對這樣才可以化解人民的餘力我們也不要說一定是人工或者是自然的 天然的檢驗 這是一個第二個 你還有一個很重要的調一下它的清洗日期如果是 我剛剛你們自己的顯示每個月份都有嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
如果剛好是那個月份是清洗的對的怎樣嘛如果跟清洗日期對不上來那就不是嘛我們一年檢測五次我們不因為齁在整個光電板的合約是水洗我們對水是檢測我現在就說你把你把這五次跟你清洗的幾次把它對起來就知道了嘛我們沒有說一定有跟沒有對起來的結果是什麼我們很理性的在討論我也非常理性的因為我學科學的我現在跟你講對不對我學自然科學的所以第一個我剛剛講送第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
325.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二個 把清洗的志祺做個對照送第三方送什麼我說送什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那你們之前怎麼檢測出來的沒有就是隨地檢測啊那就是拿那個去送檢測啊不是你當然是沒有檢測出來我剛才說的陰離子活性介面機不可能檢測出說他是某一個動物自然產生的或者是清潔劑他沒辦法這樣做啊過去有檢測你意思是以後你沒辦法檢測我是檢測那個那個離子就是活性介面機這個東西你剛才說要我去檢測這個東西的來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他的來源沒有 你怎麼講說是天然的你打自己嘴巴嗎我跟你講喔 絕對不是打自己嘴巴如果說你認為是清潔劑 那你證明是清潔劑我說你就要用12噸所以是12噸嘛你自己都檢測出來有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那你說是天然的檢測嗎我們歷史的檢測都是我只叫你說你自己檢查出來有對不對我不瞭解要檢查什麼我真的不知道要檢查什麼這個就是一種化學的一個結構的一個成分像離子的成分這樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你之前檢測有檢測嗎你說吧你現在疑問就是說你要送什麼去檢測嘛對不對你之前有檢測出來就表示那個檢測體拿去給第三方檢測嘛檢測什麼嘛檢測它的人工還是自然嘛就檢測不出來人工或天然的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
437.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你去看看所有鞋子專家現在都想說可以檢測出來為什麼你不行那如果檢測不出來憑什麼農業部長跟大家講不是清洗的時候出現的我說清洗的話你就要用12噸的清潔劑才能造成這樣的濃度嘛那這個濃度是微量的嘛整個水庫用那麼多你怎麼知道不是一個小規模這個清洗 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你這樣就避免對人民飲用水安全你任何一點一絲小規模都不行嘛飲用水的標準就是回到飲用水的標準讓人民判斷讓人民判斷是不是應該送到第三方去檢驗然後跟前後的清洗日期把它對照去做一個比較做這兩件事情你不做的話人民會有公平接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
480.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我還是強調要檢測我可以送水底任何人要來檢測我可以送水底沒問題這個沒問題對啦 你就送去檢測嘛沒有 水底嘛水底可以我可以承認有水底可以檢測嘛那就送去嘛好 來接下來這個很重要齁我教你去台南最近鄉親一些農民都來陳情跟抗議你請一三碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
經濟什麼 貸團上個月去美國大肆採購 簽了合約要買三千億台幣的農產品 對不對不是三千億台幣的農產品是針對特定的品項的農產品黃小豆跟 對啦黃小豆 黃豆剩多少 你知道在哪裡我們台灣的黃豆剩多少在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們台灣的黃豆的自給率只有0.02%大概是一千多公頃對我們嘉義跟台南農民那個是他的生計我跟你講啦我們種的黃豆都是實用的我們進來的黃豆都是做飼料用的這兩個是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
對啊 那我們的農民就說不管是用的還是農業那個飼料對我就發生憧憬你今天來懲罰你要怎麼懲罰我跟你講等一下還有更多台南跟嘉義的沒有關係我跟委員報告我們進來的讓他的飼料成本會降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
飼料成本降低的話對我們農民反而是有幫助的種黃豆的是實用的嘛我們我們的是飼料飼料用跟實用的是不一樣的我只要送黃豆的一些農民都來等一下廷輝可能會講他們也都 等下賴慧妍他們都會來問這個問題啦我要跟你講加拿大跟台南種黃豆的現在你要去買四年三千億台幣的這個黃小益進來 我先跟你講美國賺我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
576.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
594.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
台灣黃小玉的比例 我給大家看黃豆我們54.4 全部都是美國進的進了全世界的這個黃豆小麥78.1玉米73.3保定你那天去簽的時候你還講我們是未來4年黃小豆的這個增過的這個比例25% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
596.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那表示量很多我跟委員報告這全部都是業者自己採購的他們是業者年度的需求年度的需求這個不是我們特別帶的他已經辦了15次了是不是減短尾巴我問兩個問題你說你帶去第一個你就希望說能夠對我們的關稅談判有利嗎我沒有這樣講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
634.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那為什麼要去採購這個這個是年度的每兩年一次固定的聯合採購期盼對臺美關稅有幫助你有沒有希望他對臺美關稅談判有幫助我們當然希望他有幫助啊因為所有的作為是互得的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你去買那麼多衝擊到他們你到底關稅有沒有降衝擊在哪邊我覺得委員不要用形容詞我剛才說的我們進來的資料對農產品你具體的你對關稅你做了什麼幫助好的談判就是有給有拿對不對現在很清楚我們都去買了25%我跟委員報告我很理性問你兩個問題我覺得委員不要誤導方向要好的談判有給就有拿 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
686.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你買了這麼多有沒有降下來是一個第二個你對他們 黃曉棟我告訴你所有的買賣不是對價的東西農民的衝擊你要怎麼幫他們我們業者買是因為業者的需求我們讓全民看我的問題是不是都是非常明確的部長 全民會做公平的啦我現在只是提醒你你不要誤導就可以了為什麼要誤導我問你請問什麼地方誤導這兩個問題有什麼地方誤導 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
703.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第一個你要對關稅有什麼幫忙你清楚跟民眾講你可能可以降多少第二個我們農民來陳情你黃小益買比平常多25%有什麼衝擊不是農業部長該做的事嗎時間到了可是你不要搞定我只問那兩個那是農民要問你的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
齁 你要去解答問題我相信全民有看得出我們的農業部長到底能幫農民的潛力我不瞭解委員是不是在開直播啦這個是委員會的質詢我很清楚的我很清楚的告訴你我們買進來的是對農民有幫助的飼料用的成本我今天問你的問題都是照顧我們農民是農民想要問你你是農業部長應該幫他們解決問題啊所以你要用正確的資訊傳遞給農民不是用曲解的意思去鼓動農民請問什麼地方有不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
739.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
749.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我問你這兩個 你去關稅要降多少這個跟關稅有什麼關係這個購買跟關稅有什麼關係這個關稅跟關稅有什麼關係我原動抗議喔憑什麼他講我的 講的資訊是有問題的這個跟購買這個購買跟關稅有什麼問題有什麼關係這個購買不是對價關係你擴大對美的採購不就是要去降關稅嗎時間到 我們休息五分鐘我們叫前面去公平 叫前面去公平 |