| IVOD_ID |
164068 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164068 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T13:38:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T13:49:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edc2214493e54f63a4d179f4a20aeac8eafeaa2f1cd0be3abd60d19e8fa393994795ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:38:53 - 13:49:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
8.22 |
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好主席謝謝麻煩請內政部劉世芳部長我們請劉部長那可能農業部次長也麻煩還有農業部次長好部長那個本期間當然大家都關心所謂艷澀湖的相關的一個後續的狀況其實就是花蓮的一個部分嘛那我先跟您這邊再做個確認因為本期記得在兩個禮拜前左右的這個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
的一个质询的时候我有请教当时李洪源前部长他也是用他的专家的一个意见是讲是说目前还有所谓3.2亿泥沙本来上面有3.2亿泥沙那现在这一次下来7000万泥沙还有2.5亿泥沙左右但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
80.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
他講的我後來特別注意到他講的所謂是泥沙的部分並不是水量的部分今天幾個部會給我們的數據就說現在到目前為止馬太安溪的這個堰塞湖的水量約蓄水量是155萬公噸所以我先請教一下因為9月24號本期有看到一個數字是李洪源部長這邊有跟內政部這邊來做討論是說9月24號上面還有所謂3000萬公噸的水量 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.79 |
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97.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那到今天提供的資料只剩155萬公噸所以是不是這個驗射壺它其實還是有持續有把這些水量排放的一個狀況說明一下好不好我想因為監測單位是農業部我請他來回應好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
126.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
跟委員報告目前確實是他達到一個差不多平衡的狀態就是進多少水他就出多少水所以他其實過去到現在一直還是有所謂的水量有流失的一個狀況是不是自然的流失他目前是維持平衡目前的這個水量沒有太多的消長那現在會因為是您剛所說到剩下150萬噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟之前的数据有比较大差是因为我们重新安装水位计之后发现到它应该是在之前923的时候溢流溃绝的过程当中它有很多的泥沙也往湖区来沉积然后当天下大雨所以也有很多泥沙进来所以它现在的湖底的形状可能从原本比较像一个碗的形状变成是一个浅碟子的形状所以水量是变少但是那边的问题现在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
166.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
您剛所提到土砂的問題是泥沙的問題嗎是 所以我想要確認的地方就是說你今天白紫黑字的資料是155萬公噸的水量對那泥沙勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
泥沙现在李洪源部长他在上个礼拜的记者会其实让我们这个数字我觉得相信对于当地的居民来说或者说全国民众来说也是会感到焦虑的就是说上面有3.2亿吨的泥沙但这一次即便是那么严重的风灾只下来了7000不能讲只下来了7000万公吨那上面还有2.5亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那會不會接下來現在極端氣候那我們要怎麼樣因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我覺得這才是關鍵嘛對這也是我們後續要特別在監測跟防範的那就是上頭的這些差不多還有2.5億萬立方的這個泥沙他未來會隨著比如說大雨這個他有可能還是會逐漸往下一動那即使是沒有好大雨的情況下長期有時候下小雨他還是會比較緩慢的向下移動 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以包含最下游的青枢还有刚刚今天大家所关注的堤防的这个加高还有就是说怎么样在中上游想办法能够有一些蓝沙或主沙不要让这些沙一次一次性的严重性的对对这个都是后续从上中下游都要去努力的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.795 |
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266.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那所以剛剛也確認是說現在確實上面還有2.5億公噸的一個泥沙是好那現在比較積極的作為我相信一定會有可是如果說短時間內這可能就要回來到部長這邊部長上禮拜我記得我質詢的時候有特別詢問過所謂有沒有中央啟動千春計畫那當時您給我的答覆是說一個禮拜現在在一 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
諮詢相關這個村民的一個意見對受災戶的意見那現在狀況怎麼樣你說一個禮拜內跟委員報告那個我們現在在重災戶的部分呢幾乎每一戶都有找到人因為有的時候他們到收容安置或者依親到別的地方那我們現在呢所以我們重災戶這樣子總共計算下來89戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
289.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
295.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那現在有58戶在收容安置那39戶依親那目前為止有40戶表達需要中繼屋那到目前為止沒有人表達要遷村 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
305.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
334.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這個是個別災戶的意見所以我們現在可能就是先朝著說在台塘的一塊五公頃的土地上面看是不是先來蓋中繼屋然後才慢慢解決他們未來收容安置的問題所以說中繼屋有可能是在台塘這邊會由內政部這邊來做進行嗎是的 我們會負責處理這一塊但是他們要不要去中繼屋還要再問他們你剛剛有提到就是說有40戶表達意願是他們是希望去中繼屋所以說其實也還沒有到一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為你89戶的重災戶嘛那剩下的這些重災戶勒有的人可能要移清有的人可能要移清有人要移清有人要租屋有的人要回到原住所 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
359.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為本席有看到您這邊今天內政部的相關資料有包括說衣輕有包括說租屋補貼或是租金補貼或是短期旅宿等等的部分這是最近現在這個狀態現在這個狀態但比較長期的狀態重災戶是89戶是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
365.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
392.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以本席現在想確認的地方就說因為剛剛我們也詢問完畢了嘛就說上面如果說至少有2.5億公噸的泥沙那其某程度上我們短時間內也沒有辦法有比較積極的作為當然你有123的步驟但實際上在那個地方到底適不適合居住這可能大家都還要再評估甚至打一個問號所以說我們現在想是說怎麼樣保障地方的鄉親的一個權利本席那個時候提出來當時在 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不管是921地震或是88風災莫拉克風災的時候其實就是中央跟地方有一起配合尤其是中央提出所謂的災後復原計畫條例那並且中央這邊協助引導不管是部會的溝通以及編列的預算還有後續的整合的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
417.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我現在才請教是說那到底我們後續這一個部分重災戶也好或是說花蓮的鄉親在這邊的一個鄉親他後續何去何從報告委員我們上個禮拜的行政院議會已經有通過一個丹納斯颱風加上這一次這個那個豔賽湖的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
433.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
438.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我們的預算呢是編列250億就除了丹納斯以外的這個600億以外編列250億那針對後續的這個收容安置的部分的話大概我們提出三種條件一個就是異地重建一個是原地重建那這個部分呢當然是要問過災民的意見那還有一個在這中間的中繼的部分的話呢我要求我們的次長來協助看是不是這個東華大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
465.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
跟都市防災有關的或是區域計劃有關的幫我們做一下基本上如果未來這個地方仍然有這個驗賽湖的這個危機的話要不要做不同的都市計劃包括說是不是整個要遷移到某個地方因為這一次呢目前為止是緩和的狀態明年的汛期有沒有更大的颱風要來沒有人敢保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
506.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
甚至不一定以現在的極端氣候其實你說十月有可能台風也會沒有人敢沒有人敢預測也因此這個事情要快要一快不一慢嘛是所以我們希望在兩三個月之內啊包括東華大學的這個都市建築研究所在提供告訴我們說過去的歷史紀錄裡面以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
509.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
現在的重災區媽祖街那個地方89戶是不是都不宜居住那這個部分出來以後我們會朝著這方向再跟花蓮縣政府或是光復鄉公所來做比較好的溝通是因為其實我覺得對災民來講他們也需要是專業的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
525.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
528.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
告訴他們說到底他們的家園後續要怎麼做會對於他們的生命財產安全其實是最有利的幫助對 這是中長期我們要處理的計畫但在短期內就是我們這兩天這個紀連城政委希望跟花蓮縣政府還有三個鄉鎮公所展開處理一下疏散撤離的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
543.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因為現在的人已經不居住在原地是他在收容安置所或在別的地方所以怎麼樣把人口做最好的清查知道他人在哪裡到時候有狀況怎麼樣把它撤離出來才不會找不到人那這樣會對於那個有效的這個做疏散撤離計畫會打折 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
571.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我想雖然我們不是花蓮鄉親但是我們對花蓮鄉親的關心是沒有分彼此的報告委員我們現在跟花蓮縣政委一樣都是為期一級開設這個一級開設其實每一天滾動進來的數據我們都會做判斷所以才會有前進指揮所陸陸續續有市長跟政務委員都在現場幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
586.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
612.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想很多跨部會應該處理的部分我想行政院都非常盡力在幫忙處理一快不一慢啦就像我那天總執軍的時候特別提到是說後續的這個所謂的重建計畫等等的也希望能夠有政委來做一個調和不管是農業部不管是內政部相關部會都一起來做我還是再次強調就是說雖然花蓮我們並不是花蓮的鄉親但是花蓮在這一次的受災我們全國都感同身受 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
612.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
621.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
也因此特別運用這個機會來跟您就教未來我們還會持續追蹤也請內政部把握這樣子一個專業的精神勇於認識謝謝謝謝謝謝 |