| IVOD_ID |
164062 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164062 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T12:25:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T12:37:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edcfab02d23b8c36196179f4a20aeac8eafeaa2f1cd0be3abd6b99eda9eaf2fc55b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林德福 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:25:42 - 12:37:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢。） |
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還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.017 |
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上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
89.976 |
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馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.59 |
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113.353 |
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是 謝謝報告委員 依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.914 |
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140.041 |
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我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.241 |
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167.029 |
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所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.288 |
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185.055 |
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我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.255 |
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203.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.527 |
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226.041 |
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你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.082 |
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244.981 |
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引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.962 |
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266.621 |
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救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.149 |
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282.481 |
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那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障 劉部長你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
283.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
306.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QR Code掃QR Code的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.726 |
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334.762 |
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他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.681 |
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356.678 |
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有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
358.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
370.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
372.23 |
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400.969 |
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好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
402.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
465.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
466.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
472.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
490.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
516.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
560.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
576.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
581.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出 |