| IVOD_ID |
164060 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164060 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T13:19:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T13:32:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edccb43aa97f50f8304eadaba87319979820384c49a5c493879343b689e4d41e2da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:19:40 - 13:32:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室就「重大食安事件處理之檢討與食安稽核人力不足問題」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 主席請一下部長和署長還有署長兩位好 兩個人同樣專業就不知道要問哪一個這兩個人很專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.645 |
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我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
74.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.709 |
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95.378 |
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這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對 這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.841 |
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142.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.888 |
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157.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.352 |
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209.92 |
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原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長 20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分 劑量跟劑型 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告 對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是 他也是學民藥對 所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.657 |
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276.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
像我們現在是Peace GNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠 學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是 關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
361.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對 那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本來不一定要 但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面 學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
518.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施Peace GMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施Peace GMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品 食品廠要 要 要目前有沒有什麼想法好 應該這樣講 講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是 不是 不是對 現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質 對 對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西 對 對 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
684.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存 它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人 專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
684.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
707.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
708.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
752.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
754.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
764.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好 謝謝主任 謝謝主席 |