| IVOD_ID |
164043 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164043 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T11:38:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T11:49:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edcaaaa98cf723ad828179f4a20aeac8eaf54e55ddf1b168a3159671ad967cd14905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李柏毅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:38:54 - 11:49:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.81 |
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4.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
我所認識的劉世芳部長在我過去跟他共事的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
每次高雄市在開災變中心的會議的時候我們的劉副市長就是不見了他人在哪裡在山區他人在做什麼在撤離所以劉部長我請你先休息一下我先請農業部市長請農業部市長市委員好市長剛剛還有這個署長你們的報告裡面有寫到從煙澀湖從7月開始監測以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我們到底農業部做了什麼 除了監測那當然也有相關的這些疏菌的計畫那最後萬一有出現紅色警戒了那可能就是有一些撤離的這些方案那撤離的相關的全責的單位機關等等的其實剛才講制度 講災防法都是為了要脫責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
剛剛副總召講了這個災害防救法第10條規定是什麼其實它的重點是要把這個災防法第10條的規定說成是鄉鎮區公所他們的責任一個花蓮縣政府要把這個撤離的責任推給鄉鎮市公所這個是剛剛結論到的第一個重點第二個重點其實他沒有講到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
在這個鄉鎮市公所撤離的責任之前災防法第四條災防法這些督導管理這些主管機關呢在直轄市是直轄市縣府而在縣市是縣市政府啊所以公然的在立法院內政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
把這個責任推給硬塞給鄉鎮市公所之外呢他也忘了讀第四條花蓮縣政府的職責是什麼但是我們今天說實在都不是要去究責是光復公所或者是村長那或者是縣政府其實我們是在討論這個我剛剛看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
當是溢流的時候或者是可能有潰堤的危險的時候或者是因為這個颱風已經產生了幫我放這個颱風警報或者是這個颱風已經產生了有可能要發布紅色警戒有可能目前是黃色警戒可能要撤離是多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
179.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
203.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那剛剛副總召在這邊討論說你什麼時間是黃色警戒你裝在陰邊中心你劉士芳部長要用最高的標準來所以花蓮縣政府是沒有責任我覺得現在都不是討論那個的時候那剛剛有其他委員也講到制度的問題紅色警戒黃色警戒各應該做什麼樣的撤離或什麼樣的警報那 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
234.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這一個範圍到底有多大應該照制度走那我就請問各位啊我就請問剛才的委員啊災害應變中心隨時在處理各種狀況可能有委員可能沒有行政經驗沒有在災害應變中心待過不知道災變中心的指揮系統匯報各地或者是所有專家的意見之後必須要做出裁判必須要做出 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
258.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
決定那決定之後各自分層分工該做什麼事情的人就去做什麼事情該找資源的人就去找資源中央該負責什麼包含國防部會支援多少人力來人就在那裡要不要指揮地方要不要指揮負責撤離的人要不要指揮這個是整個災變中心在做的事情而農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
260.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在之前就是在做相關的這個如果是要輸菌那輸菌可能大家的意見不一樣我想要聽一下次長當時對輸菌農業部還有經濟部可能對相關的意見有什麼樣不一樣的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
276.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
謝謝委員關心因為其實對於這次的這個驗測壺其實真的是不要說台灣沒碰過在全世界應該也算是一個非常特別的狀況所以我們在7月26號發現這個驗測壺形成之後其實一直在做就是做監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
291.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
了解這個宴會社會有什麼變化那各種模型的演練或是各種模型的建置也是基於我看你的工作報告裡面也是馬步停蹄每週都有工作進度應該都要因為其實晴天有晴天狀況大雨有大雨狀況地震在花園有地震的狀況那東北季風來又有狀況那颱風來那更別提所以所有的模擬都是因照所有的參數變動包括每天的水位增加包括整個地形地貌的監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
345.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
大家講個道理 這個是穩定的艷澀湖跟你遇到下雨天的艷澀湖 還有可能颱風要來的艷澀湖 來 看一下齁9月21號颱風還很遠喔已經開始成立應變中心了 9月22號已經開始發布這個黃色警戒了9月22號已經紅色警戒囉 來 各位看一下當時的颱風還這麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
350.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
363.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
預報還這麼遠而且發生災情的是在花蓮那我們也對花蓮做出了這些相關的包含到9月22號就已經發布了紅色警戒紅色警戒開始劉世芳部長可能就要請你上台了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
367.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
388.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員好剛才副總召說依照這個作業標準的規定還是黃色警戒突然到紅色警戒指揮官怎麼會依據台大的這個調查報告說臨時就要變成要撤8000人所以他沒有責任我想兩個不確定的因素第一個是華家沙在花蓮山區的豪大宇這是一個另外一個就是說的他那個那個爸 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
390.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那個 對不起那個艷澀湖它的水位一直往上升因為它是一個集水區所以我們這兩個判斷的因子是原來這個幫農業部做這個監測的這個團隊裡面沒有去設定到那我認為說比較重要是雖然話 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
409.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
花蓋莎的那個颱風發布的範圍是以南台灣為主我覺得花蓮這個地方要從嚴來做判斷所以當我們請這個台大團隊跟原來的陽明交大團隊還有花蓮縣政府一起來討論的時候我是採取共識決所以其實是在9月21當天就在討論這件事下午3點這個會議就在討論共識決剛副總召的資料又錯了喔他說下午3點還在還在撤離600人喔沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
432.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個資料之前還是給你機會讓你解釋一下整個過程當時我們有邀請包括花蓮縣政府還有三個鄉鎮公所都一起參加這樣的討論然後告訴他們事情的嚴重性所以我們才會把他拉高變成要撤離1837戶也就是要撤離接近 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
453.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
8600但是後來他們說實居人數是68006800人這個其實跟過去劉部長在高雄幾個山區的這些撤離經驗是有關係的嘛為什麼當初我們原本預計可能要撤離是8000人後來實際撤離6000多人這個就跟我們造冊的方式有關對不對那造冊要怎麼造冊地方政府請教一下劉副市長當時的劉副市長到山區造冊怎麼造冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
506.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第一個大概要區公所還有他們的村裡幹事包括民政、社政、警政單位三個一起去把真正住在那個地方的現住人口把它弄出來而且要常常更新譬如說兩個月或三個月或者是訓期之前要再更新一次才知道說他們有沒有住在那個地方要了解那個狀況那除此之外可能社會局呢會跟民政局要知道什麼是弱勢人口譬如說需要洗腎或需要孕婦那這些就是變成要強制在 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
颱風警報要發布之前就要強制撤離所以這些幾乎都是地方政府應該所做的這個基本的工作把名單能夠確實清楚的標示出來那因為我們在中央的部分也只能把用那個這個國科會的套圖的方式套出來說1837戶可是每一戶裡面實居的人口跟急在人在或者急不在人在或者急在人不在真的是要地方政府才能夠明確的告訴我們這些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
562.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我們現在開始其實也不能對地方政府有過度的期待我們必須要透過很多的演練或者是透過很多可能實際的這些演習也好那去落實這些咒策的方式報告委員 我想我們這次因為比較擔心是原住民的部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
563.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
582.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以園民會也加入我們的通知系統因為我們很怕就是剛有說的可能他們不一定聽得懂漢語那園民他們也在這段時間內一共有十幾到二十次也是通知包括村長都有收到這樣子的證明也就是說通知的部分我們都盡量通知到但是我們就是沒有辦法通知到每一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
612.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們只能通知到村長里長里幹事或者是鄉鎮施工所的人所以後來才知道光復鄉公所報告說他們的廣播系統壞掉趕快加上警消的系統去做撤離那當然時間上還是有一些延遲啊而且大家都知道這次沖刷下來的不是水它是水加土加沙所以它其實水加土加沙的時候它的沖刷力道是原來水的兩倍以上才會說留有大概有兩億方的這個土石在限地的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
613.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
639.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那這個造成很大的災難的我想每一個地方都有我們檢討跟精進的空間也請委員能夠了解是的謝謝部長你辛苦那原本不想講災防法那剛剛傅坤祺總召一直講災防法一直講第4條我提醒他第10條我更不想講的是災防法第49條各級政府機關如果有帶墮職守他必須要移送的我們今天不在這裡討論這個問題我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
641.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
642.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
未來不要再有這些事情發生謝謝 |