| IVOD_ID |
164040 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164040 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T10:40:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T10:56:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edc38e68aed46b3295d179f4a20aeac8eaf54e55ddf1b168a31288fdc86b9d8d4b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
高金素梅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:40:13 - 10:56:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢。） |
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高新素美諮詢在這個李博弈委員諮詢之後我們再休息那請高新素美委員謝謝趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
12.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.45 |
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而召委今天排的是艳色湖的監測災害的預警通報疏散機制還有災害復原的重建今天這個議題非常的沉重我相信不管是任何在這邊立法委員還有在場的官員們我們都不願意發生這樣的情況所以今天我們在討論這件事情的時候我希望大家能夠非常的嚴肅 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.678 |
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而且要心懷善意而不是站在政黨的立場來看這件事情這是一個中央的機制這是一個政策的問題所以我必須要說今天來了非常多的部會我一一的唱名讓大家知道內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.687 |
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內政部裡面有消防署災害管理署直通作業中心準備應變署警政署民防指揮管制所國土管理署民政司然後園民會也來了農業部也來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
75.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
然後今天還有經濟部水利署環境部環境管理署資源巡迴署衛生福利部有社會救助以及社公司心理建設師醫事師疾病管制署以及中央健康保險署醫務管理組行政院公共工程委員會技術處 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
99.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
126.776 |
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大家可以看到光是一個風災或者是一個艷澀湖的災難中央部會就這麼多部會我今天我很想請問當然今天是內政部有來我們先請部長然後農業部也有來次長常務次長也有來園民會我請你也上台那其他的待會我們再請上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我相信在場的大家我們大家都要向第一線投入搶災搶救的產值超人還有志工以及自發資源的鄉親致上我們最深的記憶他們用他們的雙手撐起了人性的光輝 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
165.576 |
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而第一個我想問的是在艷澀湖的監測上面我的結論是我不想講細節的問題但是我的感受是我們中央政府你們掉以輕心了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
166.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
182.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你們的報告上面也說早在7月26號你們已經開始監測並且在8月27號已經成立了專案小組這意味著什麼呢這意味著中央你們有超過一個月的應變的準備時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
184.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
197.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
然而中央低估了災情的嚴重性你們認為它只是一個艷色湖你們認為它的水位沒有到多少所以沒有立即的危險但是你們忘了九月份的時候卻是台灣最多颱風的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
202.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
207.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你知道台風現在氣候變遷所有的雨下絕對是急劇的下來所以其實你們我要說你們釣魚清新了大家都不願意這件事情發生所以我覺得就因為你們的釣魚清新讓整個應變的機制從源頭就已經失能了我很覺得奇怪也納悶既然中央已經知道這麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
250.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
為什麼不召開一個非常正式的記者會對外來說明有可能這個艷澀湖會造成什麼樣的災難因為你只是在鎖定光復鄉只是鎖定在地方政府但是有非常多的家人已經離開了光復鄉在外面工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
251.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
262.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以呢如果我們的政府可以像一般國外海嘯要來的時候事先先發布一個正式的記者會我相信這樣子的一個記者會會讓當地的鄉親或者是在外的鄉親我們會嚴正以待我們會非常重視這件事情而不是到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
274.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
291.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
緊急的時候部長說一個垂直避難請問一下在那麼短的時間之內你要怎麼疏散八成多人所以我認為真的是掉以輕心了你們可以不用回答然後第二個災害預警通報跟疏散的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
293.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
299.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為掉以輕心所以整個中央單位地方單位大家是驚嚇大家是混亂的所以呢我們的預警階段的輕忽導致第一時間的應對也陷入了混亂第一時間我就打電話請我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
313.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
330.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
部落的有小怪手的然後有這個工作能力的組織了一個小小的團隊進入到了我們的災區一村一村而我自己也進去了已經到了幾天我還看到地方非常的混亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
331.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
348.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有看到國軍了有看到中央的應對小組了有看到地方的應對小組了可是我發現中央你們的橫向聯繫也非常的混亂甚至於你們跟地方的縱向聯繫也非常的混亂我不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
349.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
358.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我不知道是溝通不良呢還是故意的有政治的居心我希望不要有政治的居心而這樣子的混亂導致了指揮鏈的崩潰這是我對這一次的災害所下的兩個結論當然災防法上面要怎麼樣進行更氣質的修法還有分級的規範我在這邊請教委 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
379.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
385.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也能夠安排來相關的修法我們討論我們讓一些災防法他能夠更明確的更清楚的來討論來修法好不好我們不希望下次再有這麼樣混亂的局面出現好其實有一些相關的我們請部長留下來農業部你們可以先先休息一下 園民會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
430.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你也可以在場我問一下內政部的部長請問在受災戶的基本數據上面是不是已經掌握到了受災戶的總數因為今天第三個最重要的議題就是災害復原的重建這也是所有民眾最想要知道的所以如果你沒有災戶的總數的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
448.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
或者是原住民跟漢人家庭的具體住戶的數據然後依據他的損毀的程度來劃分重中輕的級別還有中低收入戶的識別的統計我們如果沒有這些數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
450.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
456.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
繼續要混亂下去嗎請問部長報告委員我們在第一時間內行政院已經通知也是受到這樣子的影響我們公布了這次花蓮縣這三個鄉鎮那同時我們以這個9月21當時公布的1837戶為原則來處理後面的包括很多這個不管修繕也好或是家園復原的部分所以1837戶是非常明確的數字所以所有光復鄉這次燕射湖的災民總共1837戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
482.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
原名有幾戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
485.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
499.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
謝謝 我們這裡看原住民的戶數大概是有1772戶所以1837戶原住民就占了1700多戶就是原住民的戶數請你講正確的戶數大概是1772戶1772所以剛剛部長說所有的災民是1837戶原住民就占了1772戶是這樣子嗎 沒有錯嗎這樣子的數據 請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
515.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
516.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
請問部長原住民的戶數是1772戶請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
521.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
546.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們是協助為主所以原住民他的認定就是以原住民認定為主好所以1837戶原住民就佔了1772所以是原住民的族人是受災最多的那我要再繼續問一下主委在1772戶裡面有多少是中低收入戶有多少戶是重度的他可能要遷村的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
547.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
555.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有多少戶他是中度的也就是說他的家園他可能損壞他還可以進去住那有一些可能只是他的電器設備裝潢受災損這些數據你有嗎我跟委員報告這個低收入戶還有中低收入戶我們都有大概是232加212 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
569.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
573.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
232加什麼232的低收入戶然後212是中低收入戶232戶是低收入戶那我剛剛說的有沒有分我剛剛說的就是重度災難中度跟輕度這樣子的數據是多少這個我們要先做安全的評估啦安全評估要先做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
598.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
房屋的結構安全的這個評估要先做出來還沒有做但是重點是現在是這樣那各位報告沒有沒有沒有主委主委主委你先停一下安全評估報告是後續那你現在應該這些戶數都出來了應該很清楚知道有哪些是不能回家的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
620.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有沒有有我們跟他們在做部落會議不能回家你不要講部落會議我先問你不能回家的有幾戶那不能回家的我們才會有後續啊要怎麼樣安置他們啊能夠回家的我們要怎麼樣協助他們啊對不對來麻煩比較確定是49戶了49戶怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
644.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
648.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
現在是安置在民宿現在不能夠回家的4449戶沒有辦法回家沒有辦法回家然後中渡呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
652.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
681.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們就是中度的部分我們還要再查他可以回去啦因為現在不是都清的差不多了嗎他應該都知道他能夠回去因為我們鄉親很不喜歡離開家鄉嘛那有多少戶中度有的是一清啦有的是回去我知道你不要浪費時間好沒關係這些確定的數據麻煩您在我的辦公室再告訴我你們要怎麼後續做好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
681.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
700.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
另外我要請部長部長你身為警消人員的大家長在這裡我有一個請求就是要幫忙辛苦的警消人員因為有許多警察的私家車他在執勤的時候也是泡水受損了但是依照現行的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
701.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
719.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他們只是修復或轉售他們連一毛補助都拿不到而這些為民擋災的基層人員他今天要自己承受損失我請問一下部長你有沒有聽過這第一線的警消人員他的心聲他們可以納入被 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
720.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
748.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
排場的範圍嗎報告委員我們在第一時間內有有到三四個這個我們的第一線的這個派出所裡面去慰請那這道狀況如果是公務車的話呢我們按照公務車的修復或者公務車的補償這個我們警消自己會用預算來處理那如果是私家的部分假設他也是屬於1837戶的受災範圍內的話現在我們這個行政院的一站式服務有針對報廢車也有做提供這樣子的補償的機制不好意思部長你可能還 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
749.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
757.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不夠精準因為他如果他不是這個1837戶的人但是事實上他是在那邊工作他沒有戶籍在那裡那他怎麼處理因為您所提到的1837戶我們確定譬如說有8000多的人口但是他是在那個地方等於是他是不在籍但是不在那邊執勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
772.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
780.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那執勤的部分的話我們會來做部分的補償我知道您的意思是他去那邊上班然後他是私家車他不是公務車這個我們來處理請部長我短暫時間內會去了解一下其實這些在第一線擋災的警消人員他們負擔也很重的我知道他們非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
793.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
806.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以我們有保警來做替代一個禮拜以後有八十一個人在替代我希望部長也能夠清楚知道他們的困境不好意思 稍微我再花一點時間我要要求一下請園民會請你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
809.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
834.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
一週之內提交幾個報告給我第一個是臨時工作人員的名冊當然在保護個資之下他的薪資、他的保險、經費明細還有受災戶的細部統計第二個就是青年參與重建決策的會議記錄還有後續執行成果第三個原民服務台每天受理案件跟主要需求的分析報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
835.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
838.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第四個災後無法營業的原住民商家的清澈當然這是有營業登記的還有整體扶植的計畫因為這些商家也很辛苦第五個災後就職的轉嫌還有部落的再生計畫說明如何從上工來銜接到產業賠利還有長期的就業這五個麻煩提出來給我然後在這裡我要請相關部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
865.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
870.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
只要是今天有來的 麻煩你一下你們也在兩週內提供 第一個近五年的堰塞湖的災情的通報撤離啟動還有實際人數的統計並且要檢討制度的落差第二個要研議災防法第24條以及執法的修正草案 第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
889.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
909.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
重整災害緊急通報的格式要明確的標示警戒的分級執行責任跟法律的效力這個可能要請部長辛苦一下本席也要求按照災防法第37條災後復原重建的程序請在場的各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
913.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
920.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
給本席一份完整的規劃報告最後我要講的是重建不該只於補貼還有清瑜更應該要補起制度的漏洞要重建人民的信任如果制度依舊是冷漠的下一次的災難不僅僅是摧毀我們的道路還有家園更會摧毀我們人民對國家的信任希望今天在場的所有官員公務人員們 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
943.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
957.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
緊記的這件我最後所說的話災害如果不好好的做他不是摧毀家園而是摧毀我們人民對國家的信任這是非常重要的以上謝謝 |