| IVOD_ID |
164015 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164015 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-13T10:23:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-13T10:35:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5d6d14916e595edc1978551b16051f0c524a4fcb09fe33208b7b742ce67879007a419371ec2b560b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
顏寬恒 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:59 - 10:35:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【10月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】） |
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主委好主委 金管會最近引起很多的民怨民眾在網路上表示說金管會的打詐根本沒有考慮到實務的部分那這個從六月份 |
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20.848 |
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就開就有17家的銀行這個停止這個不希望這個警示帳戶的增加這個政策所以呢就停止受理民眾使用自然能憑證開立這個帳戶那 |
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37.538 |
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現在就是因為金管會打詐措施沒有考慮到食物的部分所以民眾可能因為要領薪水所以會有一個新轉戶那當薪水進到帳戶他們把薪水轉到自己的其他帳戶像是信用卡一些帶腳的一些水電或這樣的一個過程就被銀行認為說他們在洗錢 |
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帳戶就被封鎖民眾打電話去銀行解釋說也沒用希望銀行能夠恢復但是銀行端的恢復都是說這是AI偵測的結果他們也沒辦法解鎖要民眾等三到六個月 |
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91.671 |
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三天都不能等那個柴米油鹽薑醋茶小孩子的學費還有一些每天所睡的這些支付那麼多還要三個月所以民眾的錢都卡在那邊不能動造成大家這麼大的困擾 |
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有的上班族學生他們為了要解鎖還特地請假到銀行端這邊去解釋但是這樣子也銀行這邊也沒辦法幫他解鎖所以這個問題是非常嚴重的我記得我們上個會期就有討論過這個事情上個會期就是說 |
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金管會已經表示說針對這個風險控管的措施一定要兼顧這個比例原則所以我們剛剛提到就是因為不符合比例原則所以這個全能考量這個服務安全性不希望看到銀行去風險性的處理結果現在各大銀行都沒有聽進去就是因為怕被沒有做好沒有按照金管會的指示所以這個被裁罰所以 |
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錯殺一百沒關係反正就是這麼做反而真正受害的都是我們這些民眾你們要封鎖的這些這些可能涉及洗錢的涉及詐騙的這些都沒有找到反而讓他們逍遙法外所以這個亂象我想要請教主委你要怎麼樣去來處理這個事情是 謝謝委員給我這個機會來向國人說明我想剛才講的第一個委員剛才講的帳戶可以分成兩類一個是由 |
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檢調機關涉控的比如說警示賬戶跟衍生賬戶這部分是金融機構只是被動的協助他們做這個我們沒辦法去解控那是要跟那個檢警這邊去做申訴另外一個是我們去年通過打詐專法以後特別賦予金融機構可以自我管控的部分 |
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188.863 |
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213.276 |
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我想我也應該關心的是這個對 自我管控自我管控是因為我們去年打詐專法發表說我們的警示帳戶那都是有了詐騙的人以後已經被詐騙了那是一個比較被動事後的概念所以打詐專特別給說那幾種機構如果你有這個能力有這個辦法判讀出已經有高度危險的帳戶你可以進行不是全部都是手控它可以部分或是一些 |
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213.996 |
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239.249 |
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就是來做進一步的查證我想這不就是剛才委員提到民怨的部分我也跟委員報告就是警示賬戶在過去來講一直都是我們在詐騙上面一個非常重要的工具我們從110年初的時候我們大概只有6萬6千個警示賬戶但是我們經過我們在不斷地去努力的話以前每個月將近每個月都會增加將近3千個賬戶今年年初 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.39 |
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258.557 |
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已經來到了15萬這部分這也是為什麼我們這個詐團不斷地利用這些比如說閒置或是一些是帳戶這非常非常嚴重所以我們開始採取這個措施的時候我們到9月的時候這個開始首度出現了負成長比如我們從今年3月來看的話 |
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259.457 |
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284.193 |
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我們過去大概只有10家銀行是下降現在來到25家警視帳戶下降代表說我們的管控是有效的但是剛剛講委員剛剛指正的我們會虛心的檢討就是說請他們講說我們不會因為說有這樣的比如說這樣我們就停止這個我想柵團也很希望我們這麼做管控當然沒有錯但是我講的就是老民的部分你看看這張圖這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
297.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
民眾八月份就被鎖一次所以他到銀行去解鎖然後都會標明轉帳的用途結果在轉帳小朋友的學費的時候又被鎖了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
298.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
320.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
又被鎖了當初在台灣Pay在推出的時候主打就是小額交易免手續費所以很多民眾都來使用現在繳學費也被鎖用Line Pay買東西也被鎖所以只要AI覺得有問題的都會被鎖既然是AI覺得有問題的可能都是這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
321.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是實際上有問題的AI覺得有問題 結果沒問題那怎麼辦 是不是AI有問題所以你們的政策系統有沒有修正有沒有做一些什麼樣的一個檢討其實跟委員報告我們並沒有要求公司怎麼做是我們只是要求他好好管控你的警示帳戶各家公司他們自己的政策自己的方法來做像剛才講說有些公司他可能在AI的這個標準的所控上面不對我們立刻就請他來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
351.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
了解跟改善所以我們現在是希望他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
353.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
380.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
只要有這個狀況一定要非常的去精準去調教你這個東西而且我們要求這個每家都要設24小時的專線而且你必須要把這個東西把這個物控的這些經驗分享給其他同業所以我想這個問題會改善但是我們主柵的決心不變但是方法要好好來打柵主柵當然這個主要目標不能變但是就是說我們剛剛提到就你要提高精準度 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
383.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
407.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個我們一定會全力來努力你會造成我們民眾很多的不便像剛剛提到很多的這個上班族或者是學生他們的這個銀行就被鎖住了鎖住之後他每天要支出要使用的他不能用那不能用他到銀行端去解釋又不能獲得馬上的一個改善那這樣子的時候他就變成這不只是擾民這會變成說他是一個我們打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
409.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
的一個受害者我們希望盡快的取得一個平衡但是確實我剛才講跟委員報告我們民眾的帳戶被炸團使用的比率持續在增加這件事情確實是我們在打炸中一個非常重要的重點我剛才講我們做這些確實也看到已經達到成效但是方法的部分我們一定要好好來精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
449.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個提高精準度 落實比例原則不要讓銀行因為害怕金管會的裁罰所以把這些成本轉嫁到一般的民眾身上這是今天在這邊跟主委要求的主委 這個多久能夠改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
450.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
465.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一個月內能不能夠改善其實我們持續都在改善因為我們會一個要求像我們也要求銀行公會他們打詐委員會你們好好針對這件事情做經驗的分享因為只要有一個案子這樣出現我們希望這個不要再重複好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
466.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
480.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那就請主委盡力盡快好不好這個月內那接著再請教主委金寶法納管13家13家這個融資主任公司在9月15號已經正式上路了那預計一年半的時間要納管41家 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
481.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
496.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是融資公司專法這邊金管會態度還是保留沒有對 上次主委有特別跟我說明過那我知道但是即便因為已經納管部分的這些融資主任公司但是他們的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
497.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
512.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個部分還是沒有辦法讓人家接受啦因為現行的金保法當中沒有規定這個融資業者的負責人業務人員吹售人員的資格就是因為這部分所以可能會有不當的人員用 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
513.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
535.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不合法的這種手段催債我最擔心的就是說詐騙的問題因為融資公司可能他跟詐騙集團詐團他只是一線之隔尤其詐團先以假投資的方式來詐騙民眾榨乾他的存款之後再慫恿他抵押房地產去借款 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
535.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
557.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那這種案件層出不窮每天都在發生每天都發生所以我想民眾對於融資公司的專法是因應的期盼那現在雖然有金寶法納管部分的融資公司但是金寶法在納管之餘有沒有說持續計畫融資公司專法的推動這個主委我想你要我也很 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
558.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
579.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
很肯定你對於我們台灣金融產業的一個發展是非常的盡心盡力但是保護民眾資產更是一個非常重要的一個責任當然所以說尤其融資業法推動聯盟也希望你們每個月可以公布三項數據就是畫面上這三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
580.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
600.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那這三項數據的要求金管會可不可以公佈我想我們平益中心的董事長也在這邊我想其實這樣看起來的話我覺得應該我初步來看我覺得應該沒有問題好 可以啦好 謝謝啦那主委我再請教因為會去跟融資公司借款的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
600.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
620.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
基本上都是比較急著要用錢他可能就是信用小白還是信用不好有些是弱勢團體那融資公司涉及到的借款問題對於這些急著用錢的往往容易讓他們陷入一個高風險的一個借貸的借款的一個圈套 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
621.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
645.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這些借款人可能也沒有足夠的能力去分辨說融資公司是否真的符合法規規範也難以知道自己會不會被強迫接受不合理的條件所以在這樣子的一個詐騙的問題上面然後融資公司假設他跟詐騙集團之間的界線很模糊在一線之隔有可能他們這些不法分子就會跟這個詐團來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
647.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
671.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對於民眾產生了二次傷害所以我希望就是說金管會能夠加快推動我們融資公司專法的立法進程對於這些不法的行為進行徹底的清除可以嗎 主委其實我想上次也跟委員報告過我覺得我們現在該做的是如何加強融資消費者的保護而不是對融資業者的保護所以我想這部分我們會朝這個方向來努力好 謝謝主委 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
672.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
678.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 謝謝主委 謝謝嚴委員接下來有請李委員昆城召委質詢 |