| IVOD_ID |
163788 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163788 |
| 日期 |
2025-09-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-4-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-09-19T17:07:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-09-19T17:28:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8e361f1746a139580d50bc0e6c47be4492108cb222197a2d4aae0189fbb1be880fcb2c0d88e7dc125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林德福 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:07:28 - 17:28:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-09-19T15:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為審計部審計長陳瑞敏任期於114年10月1日屆滿，茲依據憲法第一百零四條規定，提名陳瑞敏續任審計部審計長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我們接下來請林德福委員請詢問李坤城委員請準備海院長還有陳審計長是不是請這個陳審計長麻煩再請被提名的陳審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
林委員好市長你好市長我請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
有關於修憲相關的議題立法院目前有委員提出憲法增修條文提議要匯除監察院並將中華民國憲法中有關於監察院審計部的職權業務移至立法院並於立法院下設審計部還有審計權的遺留 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
67.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
立法院來行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
70.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
90.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
2026年九合一大選很有機會來合併舉行修憲複決的投票未來修憲結果攸關整個審計部組織的歸屬今天提名審查本席請問審計長您對上述的修憲議題對審計部未來定位的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
99.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
110.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
以提醒建立還是完全尊重未來立法院這個相關決議以未來公民修憲護決的投票的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
113.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
119.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝委員關心我們對我們審計有非常大的影響的問題依照國際最高審計機關審計的獨立性非常重要就是說法律要保障它 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
132.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
146.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
座位不受干預 租料企圖不受限 所長要任期大概還有八大支柱 要我們這樣做那這個部分我們如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
148.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
172.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
大宴有成立的修憲委員會如果考監如果有受到影響那我們審計部也會受到影響那我們審計部的立場就是還是要希望能夠維持超然獨立所長的任命要維持在憲法因為這個是最高審計機關希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
175.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
190.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
今天要是經過這個整個憲法遵修條文要是提議通過 你有什麼看法這個部分 因為這個部分 現在世界各國世界各國 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
191.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
215.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
剛剛講有在國會的也有獨立的也有司法型的也有行政型的差不多有四種大部分除了美國和英國以外大概都是在國會其他最主要的都是獨立因為獨立不受政治的干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
217.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
233.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那問題是過去現在的執政黨他們一直主張就是會監察院會考試院啊所以說才有人提出這樣的一個條文啊對不對那要是條文通過那沈記長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
234.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
254.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們是希望能夠比照世界各國的大部分的國家能夠獨立於三權之外這樣才能夠超然獨立本席認為強化審計功能能夠強化政府機關經費的有效應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
255.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
265.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
以促進政府整個財政的一個透明增進公共利益來提升政府財政效能來勘緊納稅人的荷包 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
267.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
291.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那像AI人工智慧科技發展非常的迅速那本席也從媒體報導得知有審計官來導入AI人工智慧利用AI來查閉比對案件從中果然來發現有一些異常進而揪出不肖的廠商追回部分政府的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
293.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
320.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那審計部在115年預算打算推動AI審計資料中心的發展計畫那請陳審計長您來說明目前AI人工智慧在審計方面的應用未來如果要是您繼續來擔任審計長後會如何來強化應用AI人工智慧來追查弊案以協助第一線審計官的辦案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
322.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
339.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
報告委員 我剛剛在那裡報告未來的方向第一個 智慧審計第一個方向就是智慧審計我們的人力非常少 我們所有的審計室只有十幾個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
341.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
369.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
十幾個人要審計一個像彰化縣或者是這種只有十幾個人所以要用的就是AIAI可以當我們的審計助理可以當我們的審計顧問這個是這樣但是這個是協助我們行政作為主要的判斷還是審計人員要去做判斷但是現在我們的查帳是用數位比對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
370.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
380.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
剛剛查出剛剛委員報告所指示的那幾項大部分都用數位數位 就是說資料庫和資料庫比對像我們查出 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
382.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
398.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個法案已經判刑了這個廠商要停錢我們發現一千多家都沒有停錢所以才會發生那個太魯閣那個案子那個普悠瑪還是太魯閣那個案子啊或者發現我們用這個數位比對發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
403.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
428.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
圍標兩千多件我們都移送減掉我們會用這樣來看有的像這個被法院停錢的要沒收押要不要進我們收回一億六千多萬所以這些都是數位最後用AI做幫忙用數位 用流程主動化每天做這個掃描 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
431.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
452.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以這個智慧審計或者AI審計或者數位審計對我們審計人力有很大的幫助對我們審計人員有很大的幫助我們會發展所以剛剛委員有提到AI審計資料中心是我們2015年主要的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
455.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
473.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
針對107年中選會前主委陳英前違法失職重新刊登公投公告來啟動第二預備金多花人民納稅前931萬監察院已經認定嚴重損及政府的公信力 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
474.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
502.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那憲法法庭以決議不受理懲戒法院也多次駁回在審那最近一次在審是114年4月24日上訴駁回那本席認為這是違法公告官員犯錯卻是用百姓納稅錢來付錢那中選會前主委陳英權必須負起他的責任中選會不當的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
503.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
528.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
應事後來踢除追繳那已經多少年過去了因為他從107年到現在那陳英權一再來逃避該戶籍的賠償責任本席希望審計部你不要忘記處理陳英權最慢你認為何時可以把錢追回來你是不是給本席一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
529.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報告委員 委員非常關心這個案子謝謝委員關心這個案子我們一直也注意到114年以後啊陳寗錢沒有再上市我們就棲了公室給中選會中選會啊我們說這個可能陳寗錢這個部分要處理他中選會回我回我一個意見說那是 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
555.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
578.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那是委員會決議的不是從前一個人做的所以初步他回我們這個意見我們的同仁還在研究如何對這個委員會的決議所做的處理所以這個委員關心的我們也非常關心推給所有委員他們共同來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
579.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
582.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個實在是很扯啊我認為那是推託之職我要看你哪時候能夠追出來因為這是給社會一個交代這都是民脂民膏 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
595.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
620.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們也是這樣認為這也對整個社會大家以後的行政大概都依法行政本來就是應該要依法行政大家都依法行政就在這個行政不能透過委員會來演示來掩蓋老百姓大家都在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
620.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
646.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那你身為審計長當然你有責任有義務而且你是一直駁回這個你說他身為一個主委不必負擔嗎他有相對的權利就相對應該要負責責任我們也在探討是不是省界法院判他20萬他自己也離主了政治責任也處理了這樣是不是就是他的責任931萬變20萬這樣可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
650.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
677.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對 這個是委員的意見我們用這樣的意見和中選會談還在談 我認為那個沈記長 這個一定要繼續追而且我希望你給我一個時間這是第一點 第二點光做一個陳寅前違法失職濫用預算的案件都要花六年以上的時間都還沒有結果那勞動部就業安定基金濫用預算七千兩百二十四萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
679.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
708.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
被追回的那一天恐怕我看更遙遙無期那本席接著詢問審計部追查勞動部前部長許明尊長期濫用就業安定基金後續的進度審計部日前來揪出包括演唱會性別平等音樂會辦理空間裝潢包括軌道燈的裝設等等最後決定提出期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
711.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
732.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
224萬本席認為不能只用公務預算來歸電否則就是全民買單那政府機關要負起應有的責任讓那些違法失職要繼續來追討他們濫用預算那沈記長你針對這個就業安定基金預算濫用追討的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
734.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
751.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你認為在未來怎麼樣去防弊而且針對這個事情你認為應該要怎麼做我們防弊這部分已經有幾個面向勞動部已經在改了 已經處理了但是我們也在追它的成效如何這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
753.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
775.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
再來基金和公務要切開他切得如何這個我們都在處理有一些像裝潢那些那些我們檢調已經法院有的已經判了裡面判了裡面有涉及要默入所得的部分勞動部要去請求回來洗前部長的這個部分還在修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
782.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
806.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
司法處理當中 至於那7000多萬要怎麼處理我們已經請勞動部要逐項查明勞動部現在在做這方面的處理針對各部會裡面要是有雷同像那種就業案例基金這個我認為不是光只有勞動部而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
807.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
829.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
其他單位 一併啊謝謝委員你很深入我們查出來有57個基金基金和公務啊 混溜我們希望把它因為行政院的規定是要把它分 劃分清楚所以這個部分我們已經行文給相關單位劃分清楚那個基金啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
830.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
845.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
也是這個人民的血汗錢 對服務人作為他們自己的一個私有的金庫這個我們都會查現在以前大家都說會查公務現在我們基金也會查 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
846.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
867.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
營業也會查財團法輪我們也會查這一個部分我們都在努力好啦我希望那個沈記長一定要積極不能放縱我認為說今天身為公務人員你就要依法行政那你今天不依法行政你縱容他會養成他胃口越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
868.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
893.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以說我希望你好好的去追查這些問題截至114年9月5日丹納斯颱風所造成太陽能光電板受損影響為十二萬一千多片其中有三萬兩千片經檢修還尚可使用還可再利用其餘的八萬九千多片需要委託這些廢棄物的廠商來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
895.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
908.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
丹納斯臺灣把太陽能光電板摧毀但也暴露了大型光電暗場缺乏防災應變計畫及壓光電板清除計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
910.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
931.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那沈記長你認為以沈記部這個認為說人員署收取光電板回收費用作為處理泰裔的模組織基金110年到112年衛甲回收費大約有1億左右那衛甲的比例大約佔10% |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
933.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
952.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
本席希望審計部持續監督經濟部以及及早的改善來啟動檢討太陽能光電板這些設備模組回收的費用以確保未來處理太溢的這些太陽能光電模組之費用來源我們去查這個模組費用的問題應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
957.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
982.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
到112年應該繳10點多億啦但是有4億 差不多將近4億沒繳我們催冷黑鼠 你要他去繳現在好像要處理這些廢棄物啊可能NSO的費用還不足可能還是要請冷黑鼠好好檢討這個光電模組的這些因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
983.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1005.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
沒有想到會一陣颱風來 摧毀了這麼多所以當時就是說20年後 30年後財財處理沒想到就受到風災的損害所以這個我們會來照委員的意思來處理因為講實在話 這些光電風電裡面弊端重重我相信你也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1006.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1022.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
本席是支持穩健的綠能發展但不希望整個政策本末倒置漁電共生政策必須落實以養殖為本那綠電加值的原則當初政府官員政策講得非常漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1023.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1037.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
但是現實卻是有電無餘根據審計部報告指出2025年1月底以查核與電共生的這個案場其中有7成多未落實養殖的事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1038.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1060.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
的事實那審計部統計全台大概完工併網的漁電共生案場一共有393件那只有122件這個其中通過37件有待改善的以及招廢止的有85件未落實養殖者比例佔69.67%主要還是農業結合綠能設施未能符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1067.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1081.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
原來的這些養殖計畫本期是希望說沈記長你要承諾一定共生要持續列為沈記部稽查的重點終結有電無魚的這些亂象你有沒有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1082.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1089.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這個是這樣 那個是我們去看了看了以後 因為我們損棄的發現但是我們損棄發現都是根據一夜暑的計畫我們不會鑄創計畫一夜暑的計畫裡面要有魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1098.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1117.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
後來我們去看沒有魚後來我們通知了1月10後來有一些說明他們已經改善了一些了但是我們就照委員的意思還是要他繼續改善因為希望有魚又希望有電這個是看能夠取得雙重 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1120.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1145.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
都是雙重的獨立我們是希望這樣但是業主做的事情一樣以為主那個沈記長你包括離岸風電都一樣因為離岸風電它一開始有七成是短購短購就是溢價然後三成公開招標公開招標跟短購 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1146.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1167.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那個價格之差實在是沒有辦法處理那結果那個輪購以後我問那個沈榮金部長他說那些將來就是要技術移轉結果人家有申請專利你要技術移轉根本就不可能都是半成品進來插在那個海邊然後那楓葉裝一裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1169.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1184.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那個根本騙局一場其實在裡面弊端重重啦沈記長我希望你要把這個事情要好好的查因為短購跟公開招標落差很大你去把它調出來看真的那個落差之大 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1185.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1205.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這個委員這是一個事實我們也查了我們也發現國產化的進度都落後沒有啦 都是半成民進來啦但是也發現有的廠商他後來都要國產化他也有他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1207.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1224.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那個沈紀長 那個都是騙局一場啦都是半成品進來摘下去啦 楓葉插一插啦然後說短過 一直飆20年欸20年台電損失9100億一年要損失455億關離岸楓電而已喔 光電還不算喔所以說這些問題應該要查清楚給社會一個交代我們會繼續啊 來追蹤 後來繼續來查核我認為希望沈紀部要多用一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1238.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1239.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好 谢谢林德福 |