| IVOD_ID |
163614 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163614 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-26 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第26次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-25T16:50:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-25T17:05:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/40cf74fb6f804adcbd24ecbe8ec17ec3c0ac07f6ba1e1b096ca31dfe1e8320cc3e2c817e391698a95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:50:01 - 17:05:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第26次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及臺灣產業可能遭受之衝擊影響評估」專案報告並備質詢（8月25日）。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案」編製經過並備質詢（8月26日上午）。三、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（8月26日下午）。四、8月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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謝謝主席 左院長有請請左院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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你會不會變好院長午安 辛苦了不會今年四月本席跟你總質詢的時候我們一度認為搞不好是我們面對面的最後一次總質詢不會因為我們面對大罷免的壓力對不對你也面對改組的壓力但到了最後民意選擇讓我們活下來總統也選擇繼續賦予您革魁的權利 |
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38.427 |
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那既然如此 我們就順著上一次總質詢的話頭繼續往下我們還是要靜下心來解決國家現在面臨最大的經濟衝擊這我想院長應該不會反對謝謝委員的體諒 我們一起努力好 這個我們收到了這段時間陸陸續續經濟部也好 行政院這邊也好提出了若干的所謂的產業衝擊影響評估 |
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61.269 |
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但我想內容上是有一些不足之處來跟院長做一下分享我想先請教院長這個從我們上次四月多那時候開始關稅變成一個重大議題之後你啟動了所謂的下鄉傾聽之旅要了解產業界的困境跟狀況請問這個產業之旅您下鄉了幾次去了哪些地方跑了多少縣市 |
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82.55 |
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91.132 |
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次數非常多 建的產業更多我們有一次的產業我記得現場就超過十個以上的工協會跟產業的代表 |
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那總統跟我 有的是他單獨有的是我單獨 有的是我們一起我們當時算超過20場那經濟部自己做的應該比這個更多來經濟部補充一下跟文報告我們大概有數十場大概有些是在我們經濟部裡面我們邀請產業工會來做談有些是我們到工會裡面去邀跟產業來一起來做談全國各縣市都去過了吧 院長 |
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134.296 |
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沒有到各縣市有的是請到裡面或是到官邸裡面去談那我要問關鍵的問題啦你下了這麼多箱跑了這麼多縣市開了這麼多次的會議請問產業界提出來的疑慮只有關稅嗎 |
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137.43 |
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160.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當然是涵蓋在關稅周圍的一些問題不同的產業有不同的狀況我聽下來大多數幾乎是一半對我們金融支持的強化是普遍性的要求金融支持的強化就希望紓困 貸款等等對 貸款能夠更簡化 額度能夠更高我們從他提出來的問題來講就好了真的只有關稅的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
161.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
172.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有沒有人跟你提台幣升值造成的衝擊有沒有產業提到外移供應鏈斷鏈的問題這些問題有沒有在這些會議裡面討論應該會有提到勞工不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
173.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
202.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
勞工不足是本來就有 產業侮缺是從好幾朝以前到現在一直都存在的問題我要問的是你這一連串下鄉你都是在問台美這一波的貿易談判造成的衝擊除了關稅以外他們有沒有提其他的面向應該都有提到我現在就擔心了為什麼呢因為我看你今天這一本今天你來國會專案報告我們都很高興總算大家要討論國政但是你今天這一本裡面我還是沒有看到除了關稅以外其他衝擊的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
204.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
224.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對不對 你這一本幾乎都還是在寫關稅衝擊啊因為名稱就是關稅談判的進程方針原則我當然了解啦 這就是本席要提醒你的地方就是說你政府在下鄉 包含在溝通的時候你可能都做了很多的自己把自己框架住了嘛我講自己把自己框架住 比如說你看投影片上面寫的幾個產業 比如說我就以 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
225.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
4月13這場來講你出席了毛豆產業座談會因為我一句話經濟部所自己辦的座談會他們有紀錄總統辦的座談會經濟部也有紀錄我知道我去的也有紀錄如果這個紀錄可以整理成冊委員都可以拿來參加我知道 我就舉例嘛你現在講說毛豆產業座談會為什麼大家現在在討論台美貿易談判之後的後續對不對我們可能社會大眾更關心的或者是各產業都焦慮的是市場的全面開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
252.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
272.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這受害的只有毛豆產業嗎不是 他是其中的一位當天其中的一位這個產業 這個業者還說他很感謝說政府還能夠在這麼比較小的產業毛豆產業還能聽他們的聲音因為我要講的事情就是說你會特別去標註毛豆產業就是因為他是出口嘛他是受到關稅直接衝擊所以你這樣做當然是對的但我要提醒你的範圍不夠大 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
273.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
300.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二你好像談了一圈之後現在要進到國會來報告來討論的時候你的內容都還是圍繞著關稅這跟我們上次總質詢講的不一樣嘛上次總質詢的時候本期就期待不只是關稅包含匯率的台幣的升值產業的外移要有全面性的衝擊影響評估嘛那總是不是委員我們是沒有注意到還是我們誤會了這個今天的主題今天主題就是台美關稅談判的進程方針原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
326.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
如果在這裡只是這樣子的空間的話本席是覺得比較可惜啦對不起 我們可以把這個座談的紀錄會審之後給委員做參考應該要更詳細啦 因為不只是今天這一本啦其實陸陸續續我們都有跟經濟部索要資料也就是說這段時間大家關心的東西但回來的其實都被框在關稅裡面更有甚者 比如說在這裡面第10頁都還講說32% 現在變成20加N比起4月初的衝擊還減緩5成 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
348.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個產業界看到這樣子的評論會很心寒因為衝擊絕對不會只有關稅我們更擔心的從頭到尾就是台幣升值產業外移 開放市場你看各家媒體幾乎放在經濟或者是投板的是不是都談關稅也談 市場也談 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
369.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
匯率對不對您剛剛講的那一段我早上特別放在第一個發言的時候我說關於進程的方面我先講到現在的進度再講到產業的衝擊跟支持再講到後面的各種這個談判的方針跟原則我是這樣順序下來的所以這個是現在的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
371.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請問台幣升值的問題產業外移的可能性以及另外開放產業的可能性是否納入了全面衝擊影響評估我們打算提供多少資源來解決困難還是說你有不同的時間表請你在這個議事堂跟大家說明一下我想這才是大家都關心的事情嘛這個談判過程沒有涉及關稅稅匯率的談判匯率議題沒有在談判當中我們在四月份的各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
低推估中推估高推估也沒有實際把匯率的變化算進去但現在我們知道業界因為匯率的這個變化有受到我們也沒有想像的這個衝擊所以我們在產業支持上面我們也予以增加那照剛剛央行總裁所說的現在的匯率比較趨於緩但是我們認為還是要彌補把過去那一段時間快速升值之後所造成的問題能夠盡量把它淡下來即便是波動他都對產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
造成的衝擊 還有不確定性不確定性就暫緩出貨等等對於某一些產業來講它就是立刻性的掉單所以我想匯率問題還是很嚴重的再來我要問開放市場的部分請問我們是要等到全部談判結束開放條件通通公開之後我們才來再一輪的座談嗎請問這樣子來得及嗎 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那個時候我們會針對問題的核心就是確定之後我們會針對特定產業衝擊受到大的產業我們優先會再跟他做一些了解不過請委員擔心這個敏感性的品項跟產業還有一些剛剛我們一直提到的國人健康跟糧食安全的我們會嚴守國家最大的利益來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
483.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
很好 這一句話本席覺得非常重聽我想這也是社會大眾都關心這也是本席這一場質詢後半段要深入探討的題目但我在這邊先提醒就是說這個衝擊影響評估以你政府目前提供的報告其實是完全不足以彌平社會的焦慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
特別是我們現在整個談判的過程還有太多的資訊沒有揭露連節奏跟時間表也都關在黑箱子裡面那當然產業界就焦慮嘛所以你能夠提供的資料越多越透明你剛剛講中低高那也僅限於關稅對不對開放市場它是不是也有中低高的推估這些相關的資料包含你跟各個產業座談的全部資料是不是應該做一個更詳細的彙整有一個更完整的評估報告其實我們都有在準備但是你也知道這種動態的變化一直在產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
4月2號到4月9號8月又到7月31號各種從32從10到20這樣一直變化我們也是隨之在轉變當中那現在我們比較穩定知道說暫時性既有關稅加20%這個暫時性關稅是可以有一段時間那我們希望這個時間能夠越縮越短盡快把它達成一個最終的協議這樣最好那我們就可以針對這個確定的案子跟產業的受傷受損我們全面來展開 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
541.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 我接下來要問一下有關於談判的一些細節所以請經濟部 應該是經管會對不對 請回我們有請鄭麗君副院長委員號這個 卓院長 鄭副院長這一段時間 大家都對於政府完全拒絕透露任何談判的細節感到非常非常的焦慮你們現在還要堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
588.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所有事情都要保密嗎跟委員報告我們也並沒有說完全沒有透露每一次的實體磋商回來我們也都有說明談判的範疇跟相關的這個議題那的確的確就每一項的實質的內容我們沒有辦法完全的揭露是因為談判還在繼續進行中底定之前依照國際談判的慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們暫時還不會對外面說明那現在看到各國在說明相關的談判條件是因為他們達成協議了雙方透過聯合聲明這一點我跟副院長看法不太一樣我舉兩個例子一個是日本的談判日本的談判當然就已經不再純粹只有關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
631.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為大家都知道關稅只是工具嘛川普的工具 他要用關稅去換別的東西所以這些背後的條件可能衝擊更大這卓院長上次我們都已經討論過了 對不對那以日本來講 他們其實開宗明義就講啊衝擊最大的兩個部門一個叫稻米 一個叫汽車嘛 對不對那我前一陣子日本的訪團還有來我們還有稍微針對這個事交換了一下意見他們對於稻米很有可能受到衝擊其實他們國內很早就知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
632.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
甚至對於從他們的談判代表來講他幾乎就是開牌啊因為那個就是我的核心利益我是寸土不讓的那後來他們談判也很有智慧嘛因為他善用了國內的壓力最後也談就雖然在稻米部門他還是增加了美國的進口對不對你也聽我把話講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你先聽我把話講完他在談的過程中因為就是讓國內的社會他們的在野黨執政黨都知道稻米是重要的部門所以他用了這樣的底氣雖然到最後美國的進口量還是增加了但是他是用調整進口配合的方式也減緩了對國內產業的衝擊嘛這是日本的玩法韓國是牛肉嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
684.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那個也是攤拍完啊 對不對他們的貿易代表呂漢九就跟您的位置是一樣的他是拿著民眾示威的照片去跟美國人講這次我們受不了啊會動搖政權啊會危害長遠的穩定性啊所以他們在肉類方面美國的要求就沒有這麼多了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
684.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
709.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個東西都是他們都知道他們的社會也知道衝擊最大的部門是哪裡而且隨時保持政府跟民間溝通互相借力量去增加政府的談判籌碼我看日本跟韓國的歷史我就很擔心你們現在什麼都講沒事沒事然後什麼事都拒絕透露都保密協定難道不會給你自己還有談判團隊造成更大的壓力我們都是希望追求一個最好的一個談判的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
709.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
727.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以有關剛剛今天一直重申的糧食安全特定的敏感項目等等等等我想委員給我們空間如果我們過度揭露那是不是最終會影響可能談判的結果所以我們在這邊也請委員能夠體諒我們是為了維繫一個最好的談判的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
728.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
754.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這一段時間一篇媒體報導讓這個產業界也好 社會又再次燃起焦慮當然你們已經算是通盤否認嗎說這裡面的都不是真的因為這一篇獨家報導裡面講了其實就談到了大家真的很關心所謂的條件面包含說要投資2500億包含農水產品 汽車附屬產品 甚至藥品還有所謂的檢疫流程等等幾乎是全面開放的一個狀態院長 副院長 這個報導是真的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
757.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
784.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
今天因為也回答許多次這個報導是沒有跟經貿辦以及相關部會來直接確認的確很多項目因為美方他會把相關的關稅非關稅貿易障礙項目都在他都要綁在一起談的我問幾個社會上比較焦慮的幾個項目我只問你啦這些項目裡面你能不能守住你當初政府跟人民宣誓的四大原則包含國家利益的維護 產業利益的守護國民健康跟糧食安全的不妥協 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
785.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
802.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
對不對 這是你們當初設下的四大標準報告委員 這是總統給談判團隊四個最高的原則這就是政府的宣示嘛 對不對好 我現在就問啦比如說解決長期以來有關牛肉跟豬肉所有動植物檢疫措施問題請問 這樣跟我們的守護國民健康有沒有衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
803.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
830.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們在這個題目上會不會讓步美方他每一年都會公佈相關NTE我想這些項目都在他的這個非關稅貿易障礙的報告上面那但是我們就是以這個原則來進行談判所以這部分我們是不會讓步的對嗎我們是以這個原則來進行談判所以我想最終結果達成協議之後我們會對社會來說明所以動之無簡意做之但是在這個過程當中我們當然是要希望在這個原則爭取我們最大利益的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
831.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
855.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以還請委員給我們一些空間因為我當然會給你空間你只要能夠堅持四大原則其他的都是空間不是嗎但我現在問的是我要再問一個問題我跟你講簡易是一個例子另外我要再問如果他真的要求農產品的全面開放還有汽車及附屬品的全部開放化學品 化妝品 藥品的全部開放請問這跟產業利益是否有違我們如何守護 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
856.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
報告委員剛剛你有一句話我必須再修正你說我們一直告訴國人都很好都很好我們沒有這樣講過所以我們當初是用高推估4月2號之後我們用高推估就表示說如果出現這個狀況政府要用什麼力道來支撐產業所以我們沒有說談判會沒有事但是我們希望政府的支撐讓產業能夠健全起來今天時間比較有限所以不好意思我沒有辦法讓你回答太久我就問這一篇報導的這些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
883.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
哪一些跟這四大項目有違啊那些類別裡面項目都非常多像他剛舉的有一些類別裡面也有本來零關稅的部分也有非零關稅的部分所以它是一個範疇那在範疇裡面我們當然就是要進行整體的討論這整篇報導沒有跟你核實但是這些項目跟你四大原則有抵觸的時候你會不會堅持我就這樣問這個問題就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
918.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這要看我們整個談判我們當然要追求降稅嘛我們要一定平衡貿易逆差但是我們也要堅守一些原則這個就是談判的一個目標我們就是要全力達到這樣的一個目標你會努力維持這個國家的利益 謝謝 |