| IVOD_ID |
163583 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163583 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-20T11:42:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-20T11:52:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3feaef107a98f0c924d9e7d5b9e641200ed9bbdce0c549626d8aada7af21e617dd4df15546ecd50f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:42:46 - 11:52:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長就「協助中小企業災後復原辦理情況」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 繼各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長郭部長 |
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13.53 |
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委員好部長你好現在今天我想外面比較大的討論就是說美國政府商業部長盧克尼克特別提到了有考慮仿照補貼他對晶片用晶片法案補貼 |
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這個金額把他換股權所以他原來就已經對英特爾這樣就是取了英特爾1818非常多變成最大股東我看了一下一些相關的資料他在這個消息出來之後英特爾的股價是下跌的那今天一樣今天的消息出來了說這個也是他要這個要川普政府這個要準備要對台積電的補助 |
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66億美金要把它變成一個一個股東結果變成是股市也是下跌的你要不要雖然我知道你已經講了不過你說這個假設性什麼之類的台積電假設性你要不要從你一個經濟部長你也是業界出身來怎麼看說政府的補助給企業變成持股對企業什麼影響這個有點像中國的 |
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123.052 |
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過去他的企業民進國退的時段到後來最近的國進民退大概都是有這樣的一個痕跡在我們在看說政府要對企業補助美國剛開始是反對中國這樣的模式 |
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但是他覺得說中國那個模式可能不會讓這個企業倒所以他現在呢就是說我既然要補助你那我要一點股份我要股份就扮演股東的角色所以我想這個就這個這個Business Model來看的話這倒是一個我們一個比較新的可以討論的這個部分那就台灣來講他可能也有可能我想也有新聞在講說那他對Intel這樣的話 |
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153.218 |
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那麼對台積電的這個補貼是不是也會要求入股對環球晶的補貼是不是也會要求入股這個我想我們還要跟業者討論我不太清楚這個業者的反應會怎麼樣你看聽那個重要的啦在過去 |
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191.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我想你也是企業界老闆而且你這方面來講你應該是都是很深入的你講到一個東西叫做民退國進 國退民進的事情就原來講這個國營企業民營化是世界的潮流全球化的潮流是這樣子的民營化怎麼樣把國家的企業特別是貫穿國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
中國大陸也好啦 蘇聯也好啦等等共產國家都是國營失業國營失業變成民營化造就一波的整個國家的一個經濟的火力出來了那現在呢 現在又倒回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
206.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以你剛講一句很有意思你說這個美國是跟中國大陸跑一樣中國也是目前有一點這個味道變成是民退國進就國家的原來補貼的變成一個要投資的這個我就在請教你了台積電可不可以跟他說NO如果這樣66億美金的補貼我不要了我不要了你這樣子這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
硬來的我不要了可以不可以這個我想我要去請教台積電我不能夠帶台積電台積電政府有股份我們國發基金股份有6%之多對 但是我們只有一席董事我們只有一席董事但是你知道台積電現在有幾席董事 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有幾席的董事 台積電現在就是一般的這個名股大概是五席嘛對 有幾席的董事 你知道嗎 其他大概是獨立董事他獨立董事有人講六席 有人講七席啊除了林全之外 其他都是外籍人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
其他都是美國人跟英國人就基本上是美國人所以我會擔心的一點是那這樣一來的話美國川普可能不是只有說我持股而已喔我要一起懂事請問台積電有沒有人力所弄 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
294.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我同意委員的這個推論他有到那個股份一定可以選擇一個董事那他選擇董事就會去干預這個公司的所有的運作那他補助的時候是沒有辦法干預對那只有他進入董事會才會去干預這個我想委員的指教是非常正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是在台灣台積電這個案例我想委員所擔心我們也很擔心不過他如果要這樣的話要經過我們投審會美國要經過投審會請問台積電去美國投資1000億有沒有經過投審會現在經過沒有 到現在為止他現在還沒有錢還沒有嘛 到現在還沒有嘛所以等於說美國好 那你講到一個重點喔說美國川普他如果要硬來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
印象 要經過我們同意當然是脫審會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
379.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
要經過我們同意嘛 對不對要經過我們同意嘛所以 跟我們好好談一談啦這老實講 這也是一個好的一個機會啦齁但是 我還是要講原來晶片法案不是這樣子啦美國晶片法案沒有這一條啊沒有這個option啦說我可以印來的 突然咧怎麼權力這麼大 一下子說要印來印上 幹嘛用這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是你以前企業界老闆是政府給你補貼補貼二十億新台幣然後突然說我要轉成持股你敢同意 請問你如果郭董事長你敢同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
393.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
同意他 我們當然同意是要看他進入以後對我們有沒有什麼當然有干預 怎麼沒有呢如果沒有加分效果的話 我們當然不會同意什麼叫沒有加分 現在好啦 因為我時間時間差不多到了 不用講扯太久 我是跟你講如此一來 他有機會 因為他66億美金不算少數他的資本額多少台積電資本額 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
438.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
資本額大概2500億左右66億美金就是有一不少錢那他一來的話可能會相當大的一個比重就跟英特爾一樣取得英特爾的所以他來的話就變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以倒貼了台積電變美積電啊這沒什麼錯啊 就變這個樣子啦那你搖頭 你要不要解釋一下報告委員 我想66億我們要看啊它在市場裡面可以買到我們多少的股權所以這個不是說66億跟我的資產來衡量嘛所以這個我想都可以談如果它硬要加入我們的股份嘛那當然還是可以談 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
469.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
479.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我給你一個數字了外資佔有台積電73%了市值大概一兆美金左右了所以66億除以它大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
487.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
498.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
6.6%是很大的雪隆以台積電這麼股權這麼分散的一個公司來講是相當高的比例了相當高的比例所以他取得一些東西不困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
499.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
518.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
馬上進來了所以變成是以後變國運事業了以後在川普看上的半導體的重要的chip晶片的廠就是變成美國的國運事業了變這個樣子不過我想報告委員我想我們要看他這個投資是策略投資還是財務投資啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
521.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
536.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當然是策略投資啊那個商務部長講清楚了他的目標他講得很好聽他說讓美國人納稅人的錢他能夠得到一些報酬這個話這個四平八穩可是問題是你事先沒有這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
537.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
事先沒有這樣講啦事先就是他的金邊法案就是給錢就給錢補助你就補助你但是美國是一個法治的國家啦那我想我們跟他第二的條件就像委員所指教的就是沒有這個條件當然我們可以拒絕可以拒絕啦好 那來投審會啊他如果真的要變成這個台積電的股東要經過我們的投審會就這個意思嘛好 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
563.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
568.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝我們現在請蔡易瑜委員做詢答 |