| IVOD_ID |
163575 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163575 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-20T10:28:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-20T10:49:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3feaef107a98f0c9b608e197876b6a030ed9bbdce0c549623ec43f272543ec19e766b101dd82558b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:28:04 - 10:49:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長就「協助中小企業災後復原辦理情況」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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人做尋答張旗開委員質詢完我們休息來 請請郭部長郭部長 |
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委員好 部長今天答詢的時候笑容有比較多會講同理心跟人機幾機 人力幾力今天看起來是比較氣定神閒這段時間在傳你的去留賴總統或者是左院長沒有跟你聊到這個事情 |
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我的去留我想這個不是我可以決定如果我可以決定我就會跟您報告那第二個我在這個什麼時候去留我想來是偶然來是偶然去是必然所以我在在位的每一天我就是全力以赴我之前也講過了我一天當作兩天在在努力所以我每天做的工作的時間其實超過八個小時 |
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希望是一個大家會肯定的經濟部的這個部長那老實講事實上在去年的6月13號那時候我就諮詢過你了那時候你在討論說你會不會是誤闖從你的小白兔可是那時候你的民調是很高啊你剛從企業來的時候我要提醒你說那時候王美花還任期了1431天希望你可以多做一點不過更重要的不是短跟 |
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常的問題啦 是人民知道你要做什麼事情所以你如果再留下來下個禮拜我會繼續再質詢到你你下禮拜留下來當經濟部長你有沒有什麼事情很想做的你覺得你現在很急著要把它完成的 |
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我們現在經濟部最重要的工作最重要的工作有兩項第一項就是在災區救災的事情第二項就是協助這個談判小組談關稅的問題還有你答應的事情 把它做完 來 |
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你上次在這邊質詢 打詢的時候 還有你去看了一些地方 你做了一些引漏包括 你跟我說自己的新聞 製膨紙上面那個損壞的光電板的時候 你有做了一個承諾嘛你說你有把握 這個一定要清除完畢啊所以報告委員 我們你所指責的那個部分 我們都已經從水裡面把它清到上面 滷上來了 |
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| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
但是對就是說因為他的這個受災的這個情形還蠻嚴重的我想大家都清楚但是大家都關心他在水上是不是會造成大家水源的擔心所以我們第一優先我在講七月把它清除完他的意思就是說從水裡面把它移到路上 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我們也用最快的速度坦白講那個如果說讓廠商自己去做大概要兩個月但是我們考慮到委員的這個關心所以我們是在七天裡面就把它完成那個是我整個水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
239.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
完全投入然后把我们水利署的公班然后来帮助他们来清除的大家都很清楚嘛就是风灾是不是一个某个区域产生了而且很大量的这个要处理事实上厂商他已经没有办法靠自己独自的能力去完成这个修复的事情所以也谢谢委员的这个关心所以我们也就是说请我们水利署的公班 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
269.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
甚至於這一次包括嘉義的救災都是一樣我們現在已經協調出我們整個都協調出來把那個嘉義台南高雄的公共工程的工班工作全部停下來全部進入救災全部進入救災當然彰化也有我想這個召委這我們彰化也是一樣在處理這幾個地區的公共工程的工班 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
全部先停一下子公共工程然後所有的公班都進入災區搶救這個災民這個做法我想我們也是跟委員一樣我們都是人力極力自己感受到那個情境我想委員我們在災區也碰過好幾次我搭高鐵我們也碰了好幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們都可以了解在那個時期要靠我們的受災戶自己去解決問題其實是非常難的所以政府的態度政府的態度就是用政府的力量但是政府的工程可以稍微緩一下緩一個月緩兩個月沒有關係但是受災區我們希望受災區所有的災民能夠早一日回到平日的這樣的一個生活這一點我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
347.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員在關心 我想委員也很會認同我們這樣的做法最近這幾個禮拜的農曆大家有看嗎包括形象看起來都有改變了啦大家有肯定 不過我要提醒你現在人民期待不是只有從這個自動池把它繞上來人民現在期待 本來就是說你所謂的清除碗應該就放回去整個回收處理廠嘛 對不對那現在 現在碰到兩個問題部長我要跟你講 兩個非常嚴重的問題第一 有些光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
350.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
363.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
撈上來之後放到你經濟部台廠的土地上面去了另外一個問題等一下我跟你講這個是吹哨者來檢取讓你到了當地去拍的我給你看 左下角這個左下角這張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
365.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
387.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你這個光電的浮板跟這個光電板放下來這在廢氣屋處理法上面是明明確確規定喔你要一個不透水的那個那個像環布啊那個鋪面要有嘛對不對你看那個都沒做啦所以這個有汙染要可能要你要把它做好了好不好然後又 抱歉抱歉我還沒說完那像右邊這些你看那個土這樣挖起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
388.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
413.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你一些那個重型機器裡面去 那個油都漏下來所以整個污染要把它處理好 要處理得好誰啦第一 本來我都提前一年這個是 他現在應該是回到回收處理廠去處理 這專業的那沒有的話 他應該也要把它做好整個那個不要被污染 這是一個第二個 現在就是 環境部部長最近看了幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
415.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
443.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
去看了幾次 他發現有些製紡紙 你們管的嘛這光電板是你們管的 光電是你們管的他現在放在什麼地方 不是放到台塘土地喔你看你那個製紡紙旁邊的那個道路提案就開始把它碎掉了把那個浮板就碎掉了 結果那個塑膠那個顆粒就滿天飛 滿天飄這邊你也在碎 台塘也在碎 農地受到影響然後環境部長去看那邊的農地跟道路又受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
445.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
472.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個你去規範一下吧 避免這個農地的污染好不好是 謝謝委員好 委員要講事情 我要跟您討論一下前陣子引起很大討論的這個河山場那個木林經費那個事情你後來有沒有檢討 有沒有發現出了什麼問題 為什麼那時候那麼多人在罵你我是是這個樣子 我想委員你也很清楚我來當這個部長之前我是大學的教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
473.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我是社會科學的研究者我想你也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你也写过论文我们在做民调的时候通常有一些变数关系为了要确实的去了解消费者的意愿的时候我们会把一些变数拿掉我只是说敦青牧林会是其中的一个变数但是我想因为当初他们在讲说我们整个我们恒春的乡亲有77%的人是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
503.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是我做一个科学研究者我想我们会对这样的一个命题的解读会提出说我们是不是要再研究一下真正的了解我对这个这个敦青木林废啊我认为这个是没有问题的我们台电到每一个地方去都有敦青木林废嘛我相信我我相信我们恒春的这些这些怎么讲我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
530.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
542.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
同鄉的這個...你也變成同人了我變成同人 但是我不可能...你講其他講的情色必要的話可能都要道歉因為你會不會講太快我不是道歉我這個大家的看法不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
543.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我只是就一個他的民調的上部上那個問題我在就教於這個委員但是他把我歪樓到別的地方去說我我說我們的這個屏東的這個城村的鄉民是喜歡這個東西這個是完全是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
您認為這個合理嗎委員你也是社會科學的支持者吧其實民眾為什麼會罵你會那麼抗議其實你那個講法你忽略一個非常重要河山場旁邊附近的居民那四個鄉鎮他們為什麼希望河山可以嚴厲 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
609.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
一個跟台電的員工對 你聽我講對台電員工的付出跟努力有很大的關係因為你的員工台電的員工在河山場把他經營得非常好他們不只蹲進木林喔他們安全在全世界每次評比都是名列前茅啊所以那個居民才會覺得安全啊所以他們肯定 聽我講他們希望河山可以營利他們肯定台電這段時間的付出你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
610.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
河山厂的厂长 副厂长他们都在那边买房子结婚生子他们很多人退休都是在那边生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他們跟居民已經融為一體了這個才是真正為什麼附近的居民希望河山可以繼續原理因為他們經歷的是安全嘛所以他們才會接受你一直在講說什麼慕尼基金那一塊你就傷了他們的心你為什麼不去看台電員工的付出還有這段時間他們對國家的貢獻我同意委員你的說法委員我同意您的說法只是說如果說我們在做這個社會科學的討論的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們可以做一次測試啊可以做一次測試來做一次民調我只是就民調的部分在跟他討論不是說對這個敦俊慕林會這件事情在做討論所以那個命題不一樣結果會不一樣我想這個委員你應該可以支持我的說法要不然台電的員工他也覺得心寒或覺得說沒有被重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
700.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他們這麼付出你經濟部長一定肯定沒有沒有沒有也要肯定河山產生不經濟力對我們經濟發展的貢獻你要考慮我們屏東人的心情喔為什麼我們屏東的人要來忍受核電廠在我屏東由這個全國的人來決定屏東人要接受這個河山的研議呢為什麼合一合二合四不研議呢保定 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
701.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
720.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
河山廠很安全啊 國際模範生為什麼你會有個概念你去看民調啊 否定不只是河山廠附近的四個鄉鎮的居民超過七成以上都要求河山廠營利你整體的民調裡面河山廠支持連個屏東人支持河山廠比例還是比較高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
721.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
746.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你要去看民調 你不要自己以為說你現在要推動賴總統不要核酸 或者總統不要核酸欸 你就汙名化核酸連你的好朋友黃承信都講了 不要汙名化核冷核酸廠是安全的好 另外我要問你一個 你看報告委員 報告委員核酸廠是不是安全 必須要由專家來決定而不是靠民調來決定安全這個命題 絕對不能夠是用民調來決定對嘛 這個是裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
748.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
776.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
安全必須要由專家來決定的事情你講這個就沒專家了 我跟你講我這個是非常專業的這個就是現在很多民眾在罵你們的這次的河山公投有提到說要投那個安全嗎安全是必要的在河管法修正的時候裡面就清楚要經過安全檢查確定以後他才可以研議這次我們要投的是要不要研議他是個必要的要不要研議總統已經講得非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
778.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
793.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
兩個必須三個原則只要符合兩個必須三個原則他就可以研議所以我就不知道說這個公投的命題而且特別為我屏東的這個核電廠去做一個公投那為什麼不一起談核一核二 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
793.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
814.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
何氏呢他也是在谈核电的原意如果说今天是一个确实的命题那么他应该讨论的是核电要不要原意而不是说核酸要不要原意在这个命题我的个人的观点跟我小代表的我的这个知识告诉我 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
814.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
843.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
正確的事情我們都支持所以您剛剛在講說那如果沒有安全那安全是大家共事 OK那我們到底要討論什麼挑問請的那麼清清楚楚沒有安全什麼可能 可能延誼啊對不對而且柏定你的問題我回答你我是民眾黨黨團負責提案說明的委員為什麼當初訂的這個是河山延誼沒有其他河山因為去年的河山剛剛大體檢過嘛它是最安全的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
844.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
873.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以我們才從核三做起啊所以我們也 保定你核三年曆823過了之後你就可以進一步去討論核二或者是核四廠要不要體檢嘛你先跨出一個最安全的核三它最新嘛 對不對統新而且它去年你花了那麼多錢它剛大稅休完它又是最安全的保定 現在喔現在立法院的立法委員正在核三廠在考察我們也確認它是安全的它的那個十四除人潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
874.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
902.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
就是這個燃料棒用完之後出來它又可以用四年喔目前最安全的就是核酸嘛所以先從核酸做起嘛我想不能夠救我來 你看一下核廢料問題來 保定化加特的核廢料核廢料 上一張你一直在講這個三原則安全 全世界在用核電的那麼多國家哪一個國家不認為安全要不然他怎麼敢用 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
903.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
919.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
核廢料的處理核廢料美國有問題嗎美國的AID處長還跟你講不只是技術設備連核廢料他都可以幫忙處理全世界現在核廢料有任何地方有問題嗎現在台灣的核一廠 核二廠 核三廠核廢料現在可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
924.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
952.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
它在核一核二都在這個這個它廠區裡面啊對嘛全世界也是這樣嘛全世界有哪一個人跟你哪一個國家跟你講說它核廢料有問題沒有啊沒有沒有沒有沒有啊那個委員我跟您報告日本日本的這個地形跟我們是差不多的日本有很多已經停的這個核電廠到現在都沒有重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
953.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
981.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那你認為他為什麼沒有重啟我想還是一樣我們要由專家來考慮他的安全問題嘛你知不知道民進黨昨天做了一個做了一個發文被那個日本打臉嗎就是你剛講的那個日本的記者是打臉你民進黨啊昨天竟然說核電重啟不是國際歧視他引用的就是你剛講引用日本結果一部分的媒體馬上出來打臉他他講了這段話我講給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
983.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1012.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他說你民進黨怎麼可以講說我們日本什麼自賀二號機敦賀二號機這些重啟有困難日本的電器新聞直接打臉他說沒有啊 什麼自賀二號機地震前跟後 日本的科學的評估都是一致根本沒有問題 更重要的日本政府已經提出了2025年的他們能源基本計畫裡面明定第一個 他們要拖碳 就是減碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1013.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1022.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第二個為了電力的需求所以他們要用最大的限度去活化核能這個核能現在是日本的能源主軸 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1024.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1051.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
日本昨天打臉了民進黨結果你今天臉都臭了又被打了沒有 報告委員我們在討論的你就是很容易把他shift到別的地方去啊但是因為你講的跟昨天民進黨一樣人家很清楚跟你講日本 你要講日本啊日本就是他們認為安全啊來 我給你看來 保定來看下一張保定 日本目前保定 你這樣講我們日本總有歸宿歸宿還沒有恢復嘛你這樣實在很好啊來來來 保定你看來來來 保定看 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1053.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1075.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
日本目前有33座核電的基礎到2024年11月他有7座電廠的13個反應爐本來是3個有6座對不對日本現在已經有恢復了7座電廠13座反應爐在運轉了他們的目標是後面這個更重要他們一直在增加2023年要恢復到20 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1077.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1087.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以日本不是你講的不然日本人很重視安全啊啊你一講說日本沒有恢復所以日本人家出來抗議我沒有講說日本沒有恢復那委員你又再斷章取義囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1088.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1109.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
又在斷章取義我沒有講這句話我是講說日本也有沒有還沒恢復的這個電廠他說扛聖的問題就是安全的問題嘛是啊你也是同意是安全的問題啊是不是這樣但是我的意思是說安全的問題不能夠用公投來決定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1110.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1139.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
安全的問題一定要專家決定嘛對不對譬如說我們如果有一台車這台車載40噸啊大家也認為說40噸還可以開啊問題是不是我們兩個掛電說它可以開就可以開嘛一定要電機技師所有的這個專家來決定說它可以開對啊所以要你們所以這個問題就是不是用公投就可以來決定說它是不是要重啟啊這個安全的責任政府就要負啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1140.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1153.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以 安全不是這次公投的題目你要投的是要不要研議那政府本來在核管法在這次公投的條文裡面就是我們在講過了 總統也講過非常清楚前世界哪一個國家會在不確定是安全的時候會重啟核電你都要說40年有沒有研究美國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1165.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1168.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
美國現在有94座的核電機組其中89座都是超過40年 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1174.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1191.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
40年當然是安全的啦所以所以剛剛人家講的日本有些人超過40年他經過安全測試之後 確定安全他就用了嘛美國也是一樣嘛所以來來 我跟你講我也是在講抱歉 可能要快一點那個等一下民進黨立委說我站太多時間我今天給你很多時間講法 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1204.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1232.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我剛才在講 保定我們的台電是很優秀的我們合一廠 合二廠 合三廠在國際評比我們的車都保養得很好都是名列前茅 對自己有信心而且我們機器跟技術都是美國來的安全的問題一定要專家講保定你想要對自己這麼沒有信心我剛才在講 黃岑欣說你們不要汙染核電安全的問題一定要專家鑑定安全的問題一定要專家鑑定不能靠民眾大家的意識來決定他是不是可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1232.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1255.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
你這樣是完全不尊重民意 不然你怎麼這樣說民意是 民意的部分我們一定尊重對啊 你剛才說不是友好人來學沒有安全的事情為什麼要公投 這是一個全民意志的展現嘛就你在講三條件的共識嘛你當然要尊重民意啦 好啦我知道我時間再拖下去不行了那個主席都已經 大家看完我告訴你 馬上823就要公投了 大後天啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1256.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1282.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們現在結議文跟提案文裡面都清楚講它是一個便宜的店穩定的店 乾淨的店我也很希望就是說823如果通過了這個門檻之後你本來就依法要做嘛希望你如果留下來好好去推動整個河山廠可是我告訴你河山廠是最新的去年底剛剛提醒過請好好去做事讓河山廠可以趕快研立 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝那我們現在休息10分鐘 |