| IVOD_ID |
163574 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163574 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-20T10:19:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-20T10:31:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3feaef107a98f0c9b4dd7141e7b598a1495992f4538fe6f23ec43f272543ec1907ff25990a71b8fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:19:30 - 10:31:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：（上午）
邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部就「就業服務法第46條，80歲以上長者聘請外籍看護免巴氏量表上路，對重症家庭的衝擊與配套措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
（下午1時30分）
繼續審查
一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、委員劉建國等16人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利法第八條、第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員李柏毅等16人擬具「病人自主權利法第九條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「病人自主權利法增訂第十六條之一條文草案」案。
【逐條討論】） |
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接著是廖偉祥委員發言等廖偉祥委員答詢完畢以後休息十分鐘齁來 蘇委員請好我今天生理有夠慢的謝謝主席那我們請部長蘇委員早部長辛苦了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
來 我三個問題第一個就是我們這個就會附法46條就是這個外籍看護的問題這個原有是怎麼來早上陳慶威 陳昭志委員都有提那我跟大家報告這個是2024年選總統的時候活有餘提出來的證件那這個這一個案子的起草人是誰就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
為什麼那個時候會停因為那個時候很多臨床醫師都非常困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
非常非常痛苦,因為廠長就是為了開個巴士輛票,包括我,廠長都要拜託,經常糾紛,我說覺得這不是必要,那麼就造成很多臨床醫師的困擾,也有衝突過,甚至有動手的,所以那個時候就提出來,提出來之後大家都很贊成, |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那就在去年年底就通過了嘛現在這個案子已經在公告實施了那第二個問題這個法是我是覺得是OK的啦第二個問題就是說這些外籍的看護人來台灣之後他們會挑軟的重症的沒辦法過 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是不是 我們會怕這個嘛那個委員不要說挑軟的啦他可能就是說其實人性上都會希望能夠去找相對這個比較容易然後可能不要我覺得不要說挑軟的啦沒有啦 這個是人性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們我講一個我們醫界公會生包括醫師藥師這些在服務的時候他們派到偏遠地區能夠服務第二階段的他們去了之後譬如說去到部立恆春醫院然後他們去了半年甚至一年他們就可以申請轉換地方囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
實際上鄉村很需要人但是他就跟你說 他們也有一個協會他就說你家長得不舒服 院長對他不好等等他可以轉 真的是可以轉 他也轉成了所以這個他們能轉是他們的權利外籍的看護也好 外籍勞工也好他要申請轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個是本來他們就有這個權利的不是這個修法之後才有的所以第二個我要跟大家報告的就是說這個換僱主不是修這個法以後才可以換僱主本來他就可以換所以這不是理由啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
220.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第三就是你們過了之後你們的門檻也加了很多譬如說要先上網登記一個禮拜之後沒有本國的來看負來apply你才可以開始排隊我們沒有加 這不是增加的門檻這是原本就有的這是原本就有的 這不是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
241.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我在上次也有跟你執行過我說你們擔心說80歲以上可以這樣申請就可以直接申請外籍看護你會怕說會有10萬個人來申請對不對 你預估啦就是健康的 亞健康的我跟你說 我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好客好手的人沒台沒錢要請一個外籍客人來陪他那不是笑的那不爽耶那不爽耶現在大家不是在玩好鬼耶委員那是真的有這樣的案例啊才一個幾個一千多個到現在一千多個啊你再看我們再看半年看多少人我可以跟你保證最後我要跟你報告的就是說外籍的勞工來台灣做營建業做什麼業現在有七八十萬人嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
製造業就是整體的這個外籍的移工加起來是這個數字那他們的薪水是比照我們的基本工資嘛 對不對所以他們一戶可以拿到三萬塊如果加一半就三四萬所以他們那一戶他們的收入還不錯但是外籍看護他們的薪水多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
也沒有公司 目前是兩萬塊以上多少 兩萬塊或兩萬出頭兩萬出而已喔兩萬出喔 太少了啦我跟妳報告我爸爸我媽媽都有請外籍九十幾歲 那個孫子那個外籍的看護我都覺得表現得很好我是給他基本工資的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.066 |
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335.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我給他要三萬塊所以很高興這就大家互相嘛他就顧得很認真我如果請台灣的我告訴你請台灣的各位可能請他四小時七萬塊就沒得請七萬塊沒得對不對我對你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
對 但是委員你要考慮一下可能一些就是可能要更多面向的所以我要跟你報告就是說委員這些外籍的看護19萬多 20萬多 21萬多這些人來台灣我感覺我們要把他們聽清楚啦當然我們要把他們聽明明啦當然你有搞好安定會你又搞什麼讓他們管吃管住你給他2萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我也覺得很少 因為日本就給4萬塊啦韓國也給4萬塊 但是日本 韓國給他查他沒有在分什麼外籍看護 外籍勞工啦他們好像都打死都是一個價嘛 是不是這樣 部長你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他們的價格 他們的薪資的價格的確是比我們高尤其他們蠻多是機構在聘請的對 他們給到差不多4萬1啦對所以比我們多所以我們搶 搶不贏人啊所以現在這個外籍的看護一個月薪水你會覺得太貴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
408.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
435.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
的確這個很多的這個來源母國也跟我們反映希望能夠把這個外籍的看護的薪資的下限能夠再做提高這很多來源母國也跟我們來反映有這個期待所以現在一個請一個外籍看護就是兩萬塊左右然後就安定基金繳多少就安定會繳多少每個月是兩千那一般勞工也是兩千嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那就2萬2然後管吃管住加起來差不多3萬3萬塊3萬多應該是說其實很多經濟弱勢勉強的也不少1.2萬1.2萬經濟弱勢勉強的有1.2萬那但是就是委員剛才講的這整體的這個我想外籍康護的整個制度當然我們也在持續性的在觀察也包括在部裡面在討論怎麼經濟就像我剛才說 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
464.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其實來源的母國也一直有跟我們反應希望能夠讓這些外籍看護的薪資再提升但的確這裡面我們也在思考會有蠻多現在比方說他可能是比較弱勢的家庭他如果要請或者是他經濟收入比較沒有那麼好的可能沒有像委員這樣委員你畢竟我是自強戶對 畢竟像你的經濟的水平我們都跟不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那會有一些在經濟條件上可能不一定那麼好他們也是需要這個外籍的看護所以我們是綜合的評估考慮可是的確當然我們會持續的滾動來思考這些事情這個是要跟國際競爭那來源國就是這幾個國家但是我跟你報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們菲律賓人口1億,他在外面當勞工,不管是看護或者勞工,還有1000多萬人。印尼3億,差不多3億3的人口,還有很多在外面。印度14億人口,他在外面當外籍勞工的將近4000萬人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
534.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以那是很龐大的來源那我有查了一下像印尼那邊他們現在失業率滿高他們要出來的人還不少所以應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
請不上欠人只不過是我們的行事外資康復沒有競爭力請不到人會不會跟委員說明第一個我們其實從1月開始以後其實就跟我們的來源母國在協商希望他們引進的數量可以再提高所以增加引進的供給量這事情是我們一直在做的這是一直在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
587.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但這裡面確實也要思考到台灣母國他們一些因為你進來要做外籍看護你有一定的訓練的能量因為這我們也不希望影響到品質所以這個我們一直在做但就像委員說的的確我們在台灣請外籍看護的薪資比方跟日韓比起來可能是差了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我們比較不希望看到的狀況的確還是之前講的這器重 可是我要跟委員說明我們並不是把器重責輕當成是目標 不是我們作為一個行政部門可能要把各種可能會發生的衝擊把它思考進來然後為可能的衝擊來做因應的準備所以我們沒有辦法去想的很樂觀說一定人會很少還是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
613.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們要把這個可能的挑戰再多想一些多想一些如果我有條件對於比較多的人數進來或者多的需求出現的時候來做因應的時候如果人數比較少的話我也相對比較有充裕的條件我做行政部門不能只想簡單的我們要想比較嚴峻的狀況這是我們的責任我們當然希望我們本國的照護員能夠充足啦但是我們本國照護員要求是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
671.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
越來越高他也很會挑案子他也很會挑所以本國的照顧人員也很會挑他們的大夫很高他現在剩下點錢的事務都不錯我們衛務部我們次長在那邊他們現在一直在調高也希望我們這邊能充裕 對不對所以我們台灣自己可以自己照顧老人老的照顧比較老的自己可以接受是最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
689.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
國務理事長請國外 你就要去跟他們拚所以這是你們的套路你們的任務 你們的MISSION所以你要拯救人 我們絕對支持要拯救一百多個 八百多個 我都要支持絕對要支持到底 這樣好不好謝謝委員支持好 謝謝蘇星文的發言 |