| IVOD_ID |
163553 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163553 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-19T14:46:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-19T15:02:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f11212c1b927a403d8818ad07c9952a2a53c376a4f2be5d241ce766b101dd82558b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:46:31 - 15:02:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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謝謝主席 請院長和主席長麻煩再請主委院長 主席長備詢謝謝 王委員好院長好 主席長好中央政府總預算現在聽說是在8月21號就會確定了 是不是目前在努力中 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.237 |
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好努力中那今天我們的專案報告其實非常多的地方政府非常關心那在地方補助款的部分我想請問一下因為根據我們財化法新修正的第30條第三項很確定的就是中央政府給予地方政府的一般性補助款金額不得少於修正施行前一年度的預算編列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.159 |
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本來我們今年度的一般補助款原來是2501億但是後來行政院就刪除都等比例27%的刪除所以整個的金額下降到1865億元當然我們現在在這個會期我們希望能夠辦理追加回來636億 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.007 |
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好的我現在要請教因為不是只有行政院要編總預算各地方政府現在事實上也在編地方政府的預算那我想請問一下那麼按照新施行的這個才化法我們明年地方補助款的基準到底是2501億還是現在被你們砍掉的1865億 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.302 |
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我們是用2,501億去編去編所以呢明年度總體的地方政府的一般補儲款總體不會低於2,501億確定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.139 |
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149.972 |
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確定啊 因為這個全部都是有記錄的因為所有地方政府他們現在都惶惶不可終日這個部分呢我就非常肯定因為我很怕你們把他砍掉了之後我還要是兩句話要說立法院用這種方式限定地方補助館的金額確實是前所未見但是我們基於中央地方長年來這樣的財政的合作我們認為今年250億 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.093 |
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182.333 |
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到明年如果維持這樣的數字讓地方的發展能夠均衡但是我們很希望把636億補回來那麼這個均衡當然一個是今年636億因為你們原來就已經核准因為對不起我下面還有很多題目因為我要一個一個確認因為我問了一些地方政府他們現在編預算大家編的其實方式都不一樣好那另外就是以明年度的總預算是不是按照新版才化法來做編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
183.955 |
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193.828 |
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總統已經公告新版財發法生效我們依照新版財發法來編列但是我要跟委員陳律師報告這個過程非常非常的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.277 |
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221.573 |
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我只要確定這一點因為我所了解有的有的縣市政府是用新版有的用舊版現在很混亂因為我們在編預算他們也在編預算所以我就是要院長一句話以明年度的中央政府總預算的編列的這個基礎是按照新版才化法也就是今年所總統府公告的新版才化法來做編列對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對 所以要請委員提亮中央政府必須大量舉債好 那舉債我現在就要開始來問你了因為我們其實不是只有財化法的施行而已因為其實財化法的編列不會造成整個大量舉債這只是你的左手放到右手一個政府是整體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.773 |
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270.952 |
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只是從中央政府的統籌款原來是留在中央用還是地方政府用但是其實我們現在面臨到你們可能未來有比較舉債的壓力是來自於第一個就是我們剛剛通過的就是風災重建的特別條例這個是特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.713 |
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286.748 |
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另外就是因應美國貿易關稅的特別預算現在本來我們是5450億你們把它增加到5900億這個部分也要部分再用舉債的部分部分不是全數 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
288.98 |
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315.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
還有一個那個恐怕是最沉重的就是因為美國要求我們提高我們的軍購的支出到3%那現在行政院一直都有傳言你們在下個會期會送來軍購的特別預算軍購特別預算按照過去的慣例以及現在的實況都要用舉債的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
居住特別預算是不是都要用 特別預算的兩個財源就是舉債跟用稅計剩餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
最近剩餘應該差不多了那我想請問因為前兩天有媒體報導就是我們現在我剛才講的包含中央政府總預算還有我們後來陸陸續續的特別預算追加預算還有軍購特別預算軍購可能到六七千億之多所以我們有可能未來舉債的金額會高達一兆元是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.187 |
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370.408 |
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是嗎 這個數字有沒有很偏離明年中央政府總預算的舉債會接近4000億其他的舉債 包括特別預算今年我們變成特別預算那還算今年的不算在明年中央政府總預算我們今年的丹納斯颱風的600億以及剛剛委員所說任性條例的這樣加起來有1500億以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.995 |
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今年賭一千五百億啦 多增加去一千五百億明年呢 明年你說這四千億 那特別預算呢特別預算目前我們還沒有進入到正式編排如果軍購特別預算超過六千億的話那舉債一定超過一兆了 對不對我這樣講的沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
簡單的數學如果是這樣的數字加起來沒有錯所以其實我剛才講的以這個不管是舉債的規模或者是我們的國防支出因為現在以今年來講我們國防預算佔GDP大概2.45%6470億這個也包含了特別預算的支出那麼如果明年度要達到GDP的3%就要超過8000億沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
422.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
國防預算要超過8000億所以這才是真正的壓力來了真正的壓力那我想請問院長到時候這些不管高額舉債特別是國防支出的部分會不會排擠掉我們原來的包含教文社福跟經濟發展的支出的這些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
447.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
460.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這有兩個問題第一個就是我們除了國防的舉債特別預算之外我們像過去的前瞻等等重大的國內的基礎建設等等我們也有必須要透過特別預算來舉債的也有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
461.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
478.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
另外就是給地方的將近4000億左右的統籌分配稅款應該要代據很多的市權讓地方共同來承擔這樣才不能 剛剛委員說得很好左手交給右手 不能只交錢也要交市權 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我所了解你們現在其實已經在打算盤了要求地方提高計劃型補助的自籌款的比例因為我現在不在這邊進入很細節的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
519.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但是我覺得就是我們才化法當時為什麼要修正因為這是超過四分之一世紀超過25年沒有修正中央早就應該把錢放下去一直沒有放下去所以你現在看起來好像金額很龐大但是這是累積了25年本來就應該下放給地方但是一直沒有下放給地方的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們今天談到預算的問題有一個問題其實我覺得非常嚴重它還涉及到弊端最近我們在討論檢討也就是政府相關機關不管是標案或者是補助款對於文化團體會文化人結果勞動部所屬的就業安定基金對零日工級的導演 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不是這部影片《鄰日攻擊》的導演羅景任團體他三年補助了2872萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那麼昨天勞動部立刻來一個聲明稿一個偷換概念的聲明稿說勞動部嚴正聲明本部並無補助臨日攻擊拍攝之相關計畫說相關勞工業務的宣傳均依法依規本領沒有政治考量還叫有心人士不要刻意做連結和影射第一個我說這是偷換概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這次完全沒有提到救安基金去補助凌日攻擊而是補助凌日攻擊的導演羅景任的團體那麼他所補助一共是三支勞動節的形象影片包含2022年阿訪的洗衣店2023年紙紮篇2024年勞動萬歲搬家篇看到沒有連續三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
622.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
勞動部包庇 袒護為什麼說第一個偷換概念沒有人說你去補助這個臨日工級而是這個導演更重要的是院長我在這邊講希望你能夠立刻向立做行政策查第一個就業安定清清過去的濫用服用事實上是不只一樁 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
670.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
過去的謝怡榮就是勞動署的北區署長他因為用就安基金來裝潢他的辦公室已經被起訴了然後過去的勞動部長許明琛亂用就業安定基金來做演唱會也被起訴了對不起 沒有被起訴 還在被調查之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
671.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那麼我們的審計長在立法院備詢的時候曾經直接說就業安定基金沒有符合用途這些高達五千萬元以上這個是在立法院就是在您坐的位子上您站的位子上我們的審計長直接直指就安基金有濫用服用超過五千萬元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
697.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
718.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 院長你知道嗎這個案子羅景樂團隊的這個案子就恰恰是我們審計部調查勞動部所屬的救安基金相關不符合相關規定的其中的一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
721.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我知道你在手上 我希望你的幕僚趕快把它抄起來這已經涉及弊案也就是說當時審計部去調查勞動部救安基金在服用濫用而且不符合規定的時候就直接指出勞動部為製作111年勞動節主題影片辦理採購招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
761.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他没有另案招包表而是用厂商的开口契约而这个开口契约当时原来这个的承诺开口契约的承诺是要35次的影片两场公关活动广告拖播还有网络拖播总金额高达1069万 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
790.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可是最後他核給也就勞動部最後採購只有一部影片一個記者會就直接核給他了當時這已經被審計部已經挑出來這屬於用途不符合相關規定所以今天這個案子被爆料之後勞動部竟然用通換概念的方式竟然用混搖視聽轉移焦點的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
794.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
816.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
院長這實在不能讓人接受而審計部已經要求就業安定基金要撥補就是你要回撥這五千多萬因為審計部不認這五千多萬那我剛才從上午開始就在講說什麼為什麼要刪預算該刪就要刪那我先直接告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
817.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
846.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那五千多萬那五千多萬是審計部要求勞動部要把它回補回來結果呢勞動部說怎麼回補呢他又要向行政院要錢又要用公務預算要錢要跟納稅人要錢也就是這五千多萬這裡面可能還有弊案還有行政書司但是呢他們在下年度要跟行政院要錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
847.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
860.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
院長我在這邊直接跟你講如果你們沒有徹查這五千多案到底有沒有人模不章的問題這五千多萬你們編回來我一定要把它刪掉啊該刪就要刪 您投不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
862.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
880.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
數月前請洪森岸來擔任部長我要講兩件事一個是處理當時所謂的同人之間對待的這個所謂霸凌問題提高士氣第二個就是把就業安定基金充分用在正式的用途上面過去如果有所不當不宜要全數改回 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
881.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
901.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我願意我們跟委員一樣我們高標準來要求勞動部高標準來監視對 院長要不要查這個案子對 那過去已經發生的問題我們一定要把它做個很清楚的了解那這個錯誤不會讓它延續進行下來所以過去的案子也跟所謂的臨日攻擊完全無關這是兩回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
903.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
925.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
確實是他的導演團體啊所以我意思說你願不願意去徹查這個案子這個導演在過去如果承接勞動部或相關部會的其他的這些契約案有任何不當的地方我們當然一一檢討有所不法我們依法辦理如果是合法的就不要影響到未來合作的經驗如果你沒有調查沒有把責任釐清然後又要濫編預算的話對不起所以我想請主委我們一起招標的來監督這個勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
933.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
934.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝王宏威委員 |