| IVOD_ID |
163549 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163549 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-19T11:51:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-19T12:07:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/906c3280ae286f1137d9572e3f702fc418ad07c9952a2a537cb2166e5cf3615cdea26643c0888b925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:51:28 - 12:07:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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登記發言的楊瓊英委員請質詢謝謝院會主席韓院長行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊來自日本的好朋友以及各位同仁兄弟的朋友楊瓊英發言院長首先邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
兩位好 院長好 院長我們今天針對於行政院對地方政府的一般性補助款來做討論那首先我要請教院長古人有說過一句話叫做政通人和你知道這個意思嗎這是政治上追求一個相當高的境界 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
73.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
政治上追求相當高的境界也算是內容其中之一那我解讀的是正式通達百姓和人心都要非常的和順這是我解讀的正同仁和你認為你上任到現在你覺得你有做到正同仁和嗎我一直很努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
您一直努力 請繼續努力因為我們看到的是是沒有達到正同人和所以基本上我們更認為是反其道而行為什麼呢我們來討論行政院在5月16號突發式的一個公文要刪全國地方政府的一般性補助款請問 請問院長你事先有跟立法院跟地方政府有做過溝通嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
主祭總署主祭長應該跟各地方的主祭人員都有談過這個事情主祭長有跟地方政府通過這個事情應該他們都知道要刪減濁山濁山就你一直一直令下來啊5月16號啊之前我們有說過我們有討論過各種的方式我告訴各縣市政府說我要刪你多少錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們有做過各種的方式跟推估有跟立法院跟地方政府有做過溝通嗎我們在合訂8月30的時候在合訂一般性補助款的時候就告知如果立法院這邊有刪減那就要搭配刪減哇 那這個更偉大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
168.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
可以如此嗎不要說藍營的首長都不知情連綠營的首長立委他們也都是被動告知被動告知所以本席定調你沒有正通人和所以本席要再跟你討論的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
170.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
為什麼會在事後來開槍呢為什麼還要地方政府去舉債呢為什麼還要說要看地方政府還說是一個輪迴呢輪迴之說這到底怎麼回事請教院長這個源頭就是行政院的預算被大院刪減那麼多之後我們的源頭沒有了我們源頭沒有了這個水如何下去凡事要正通人和 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
217.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
大家要求的是地方跟中央我們要有一些可以辦事的預算如果中央被刪除了我們怎麼去酌補地方請你仔細看立法院今天刪除通過送請總統府總統府公告之在這個公告之當中他是怎麼說的我們繼續來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
也就是說你說你刪了這個地方這個一般就補助款 您知道嗎以台中市為主 刪了32億這些錢是什麼低收入戶 兒童 生長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
中低收入戶的一個補助育兒津貼就學補助倒撂橋樑以及公園等基礎設施這些都是救命錢的院長這都是院長如果你願意犧牲孩子身障者長輩的權益來達到政治的一個算計那這有道理嗎如果台中市政府真的這麼做那是台中市政府自己的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
院長 請你注意聽你說是台中市政府的選擇台中市政府不會犧牲這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就像在權益所以本身要告訴你你再怎麼砍你也不能違法但是告訴你行政院一般性補助款您的公文你就要去超越法制請你注意聽這是明顯的違法首先根據3月21號總統令華總一經制定1140026191號公布的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個內容非常明文的規定說明一般性補助款2501億1279億元照列院長照列是什麼意思照列應該不用不用再解釋了吧照列這是總總府公告之 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
331.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那麼預算經過了立法院審議之後總統府公布之即成為法定的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
同時它的形式跟法律是相當法定的預算具有法律規範的效力行政機關你必須要依照法定的預算去執行之你是不得違法的這是總統府公告之連這樣都敢看不是違法 什麼叫違法行政院編列預算也請立法院依法審議預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
375.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
當立法院在審議預算違背了整個精神跟原則的時候行政院已經沒有預算可以去對地方政府做任何酌情的補助了所以我們做這個事情可以不得已的解決請你回答提問的時候你要審思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你要省時啊總統府公告之都已經是照列兩個字你還這麼樣的一個違法亂看我再告訴你3月21號總統府公布的才化法的一個修正我們看到規定你政府對於地方政府的一般性補助款的金額你不得少於修正前一年度的預算編列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你这样砍就等于又违反了明年度的预算编制的原则你这样砍又违反了好你就说了这个明年度最好的你告诉人家说明年度财务法修改了之后你可以用财务法你现在取债你可以用财务法去还债资赵烈的预算里头我们砍的预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
明列出11項中央各項目並沒有將中央政府中央這個地方政府的這個補助款一般性補助款是一毛錢也沒有刪而是總統府公佈之是照列兩個字那是因為在通案通案刪減中通案刪減要399億但照那幾項只能刪掉303億很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在哪裡 你很清楚在不動的在使用不好的刪減這個看緊荷包但是本席再次跟你強調一般性補助款是一毛也沒刪而且是總統府公告之公佈之是照列 非常清楚所以本席要再告訴你本席要再告訴你你砍了地方補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
504.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你事前沒有溝通你事後又開降地方政府跟人民要大家自己去舉債還有輪回縮這是一個公然違法的事情請問有這麼糟蹋人民的政府嗎有這樣嗆人民的政府嗎所以本席要告訴你政府本席已經告訴你了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一般性補助款我第三次告訴你一般性補助款一毛錢也沒刪總統府公布之所以你當政府的權利他已經凌駕到法律的時候我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
527.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
當政府的權力已經凌駕到這樣子的一個權力的時候凌駕到法律面裡頭我相信人民都是雪亮的人民不會沉默的所以本校要告訴院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
法定的預算的刪減它不是鬥爭的工具它必須要循著嚴格的法定程序我們依照預算法第71條的規定預算的執行是當國家有發生特殊重大災難的時候你要必須要刪減的時候你還要經過你的行政院院會通過送請總統府以令發布執行詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
572.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
594.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
今天有什麼這樣的情勢呢所以院長你還違規到中央對直轄市以及縣市政府的政府的補助辦法一般性的補助辦法的一個停波的一個減少減劣以及扣減都有明文的法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
595.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
怎麼可能你想要刪 你要調 就調呢怎麼可以如此呢是行政院的錢被你們刪掉了行政院不得不這麼做而已第四次強調 一般性補助款總統府公告之 一毛錢都不要刪我再一次回答 是要我們自行調整我再一次回答 是要我們自行調整所以 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我们刚刚的讨论我相信人民看得到人民希望安定的生活我们不希望如此的一个违反所以你现在提了这个方案进来我们审慎的在审查支持我们地方预算要能够全额一般性的补助预算要能够全额来回补资会不会 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
647.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
會不會全數如期的回復中央不會對地方的補助任何的苛扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你有一个善意的回应你也听到地方的痛苦所以本席要告诉你本席要告诉你你这一次删了台中市32亿的一般性补助款违法影响了65万人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
705.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
您知道嗎包括了我們的生活補助費我們的國中小學以及高中大專孩子的教育補貼所以本席要告訴你這一些錢都是法定總統府照列公告資所以本席還是要告訴你低收入戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這些的生活津貼 警消的設備以及基礎建設 這些都是命脈不容許如此當整政治惡鬥的工具來違法地砍除地方的補助款國防外交教育被大院刪除多少影響中央執政 您在乎一點點嗎本期再次第五次告訴你 一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
742.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們的總統府公告之是照列立法院一毛錢都沒有刪立法院要請政院自行刪除 自行調整本席要跟你討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
744.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
771.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為政治的惡鬥我相信你也不願意政治的惡鬥如果是凌駕在我們孩子的餐桌老人家的藥袋消防員的設備這絕對是不容許的這絕對是不容許的你現在本席要跟你討論的是我們最近碰到了關稅議題在這一次你也下鄉來聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
773.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
783.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本席從一開始就一直建議率先提出行政院必須要提出我們的預算協助所有的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
784.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
802.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們現在所得到的關稅20%累加關稅平均全國累加的關稅2.4%台中市是我們所有的工具機 手工具機我們的機械 自行車所有零組件重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
803.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
829.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
本席一頓 一直吶喊 880億你們出估提出來 本席說不夠再拜託你們 絕對不夠光光880億在我台中就不夠了更何況全國所以你們第二次提出再增加50億 930億本席仍舊不管在經濟委員會 在大院一再強調 絕對是不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
831.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
850.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為目前關稅我們最受害的是什麼人是傳統產業也就是在你點頭也就是在我們台中地區這些重中之重他不只是影響到我們的傳統產業現在目前院長你知道嗎他們不敢接待 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
851.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
868.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他們倉庫到期不敢續約他們不知道要怎麼佈建未來而且影響到相應對的是勞工他們的工作權現在已經有做四天休三天甚至有放無薪假 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
869.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
891.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以本席也歡喜看到你們再提出增加這450億裡頭有200億是要給我們產業但是你告訴我們這200億是預留怎麼評估啊你告訴我需要的時候你就提出請問現在已經是急救時什麼情況叫做可以提出這200億協助我們的產業請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
894.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
908.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這是行政院尊重立法院需要的時候向理事長提出你需要的評估依據是什麼我已經告訴你已經在急救了委員有意見的話可以把它改成5900億一次編組我沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
910.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
935.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你是行政院長今天是你今天送到立法院來我告訴你產業需求請你將200億編進來我們全力支持產業可不可以我們是尊重立法院你尊重立法院我們要支持產業200億編進來全力支持好你可以把它恢復成5900億支持我們的產業好不好委員可以把它提議如果大院都同意我當然沒有意見你要不要送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
948.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
948.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 |
| gazette.lineno |
376 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：（11時51分）謝謝院會主席韓院長、行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊，以及來自日本的好朋友，各位同仁、新聞界的朋友，楊瓊瓔發言。院長，首先邀請卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。院長，我們今天針對行政院對地方政府的一般性補助款來討論。首先我要請教院長，古人說過一句話叫做政通人和，你知道這個意思嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這是政治上追求一個相當高的境界。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：政治上追求相當高的境界，也算是內容其中之一，那我解讀的是政事通達，百姓和人心都要非常的和順，這個是我解讀的政通人和。你上任到現在，你覺得你有做到政通人和嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我一直很努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你一直很努力，請繼續努力，因為我們看到的是沒有達到政通人和，所以基本上我們更認為是反其道而行。為什麼呢？我們來討論，行政院在5月16號以突發式的一個公文要刪全國地方政府的一般性補助款，請問院長，你事先有跟立法院、跟地方政府做過溝通嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
卓院長榮泰：主計總處主計長應該跟各地方的主計人員都有談過這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：主計長有跟地方政府談過這個事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：應該他們都知道要刪減、酌刪…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：應該他們都知道？就你一紙令下來啊，5月16號啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，我們之前有說過…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：之前有做過溝通嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們有討論過各種的方式。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：有告訴各縣市政府說我要刪你多少錢嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們有做過各種的方式跟推估，我們認為這種方式是影響比較少的。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：本席請教，有跟立法院、跟地方政府做過溝通嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是不是請主計長說明？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們8月30在核定一般性補助款的時候就有告知，如果立法院有刪減，那就要搭配刪減，是這樣子的。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：哇，那這個更偉大了，可以如此嗎？不要說藍營的首長都不知情，連綠營的首長、立委他們也都是被動告知，所以本席定調你沒有政通人和。本席要再跟你討論，為什麼會在事後來開嗆呢？為什麼還要地方政府去舉債呢？為什麼要砍地方政府還要說是一個輪迴呢？輪迴之說到底怎麼一回事？請教院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
卓院長榮泰：行政院的預算被大院刪減那麼多之後，我們的源頭沒有了，源頭沒有了這個水如何下去？凡事要政通人和，大家要求的是地方政府跟中央要有一些可以辦事的預算…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：好，請你仔細看…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果中央被刪除了，我們怎麼去酌補地方？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，請你仔細看，這是立法院三讀通過送請總統府公告，這個公告是怎麼說的？我們繼續來討論。也就是說你刪了地方的一般性補助款，以臺中市來說刪了32億，而這些錢是什麼錢？是低收入戶、兒童、身障及中低收入戶的補助…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
卓院長榮泰：並非如此！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：還有育兒津貼、就學補助…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
卓院長榮泰：並非如此！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：道路、橋梁以及公園等基礎設施，這一些都是救命錢，院長！院長，如果你犧牲孩子、身障者和長輩的權益來達到政治的算計，這有道理嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果臺中市政府真的這麼做，那是臺中市政府自己的選擇。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，請你注意聽。你說這是臺中市政府的選擇？臺中市政府不會犧牲這些人的權益！ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
卓院長榮泰：就像立法院…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
卓院長榮泰：立法院要求行政院…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你再怎麼砍，你也不能違法！本席告訴你…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
卓院長榮泰：就像立法院要求行政院自行調整，所以我們就是做這樣的調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：行政院刪除一般性補助款的公文超越法制，請你注意聽，這明顯違法！首先，根據3月21日總統令華總一經字第11400026191號公布的內容有明文規定，即一般性補助款2,501億1,279億元照列，院長，照列是什麼意思？照列應該不用再解釋了吧？照列是總統府公告的。預算經立法院審議後，由總統府公布之，即成為法定預算，故其跟法律相當，法定預算具有法律規範的效力，行政機關必須依照法定預算執行之，不得違法，這是總統府公告的，連這樣都敢砍，這不是違法，什麼叫違法？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
卓院長榮泰：行政院編列預算，也請立法院依法審議預算；當立法院在審議預算違背了整個精神跟原則時，讓行政院已經沒有預算可以對地方政府做任何酌情的補助了。所以我們這樣做是情非得已，是不得已的解決。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，請你回答提問時要慎思！總統府公告之都已經是照列，你還這樣違法亂砍？我再告訴你，3月21日總統府公布財劃法修正，我們看到當中規定政府對於地方政府的一般性補助款金額不得少於修正前一年度的預算編列數，所以你這樣砍，就等於又違反了財劃法…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那是指明年度的預算編製原則。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你這樣砍又違反了！好，你說是明年度？那最好了。你告訴人家說明年度財劃法修改之後可以用財劃法……因為你現在舉債，所以可以用財劃法去還債。院長，在照列的預算項目裡，我們砍的預算明列出11項中央各項目，當中，中央政府給地方政府的一般性補助款一毛錢也沒有刪，而總統府所公布的是「照列」兩個字，所以院長…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那是因為在通案刪減要刪減939億，但照那幾項來算，只能刪掉303億…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，刪減的預算在哪裡，其實你很清楚。那是不當使用的，所以這種刪減叫看緊荷包。本席再次跟你強調，一般性補助款一毛也沒刪，而且是由總統府公告的，所公布的是照列，非常清楚…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是立法院要行政院自行刪減、自行調整…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：本席要再告訴你，你砍了地方補助款，事前沒有溝通，事後又開嗆地方政府跟人民，要大家自己去舉債，甚至還有輪迴說，這是公然違法的事情，請問有這麼糟蹋人民的政府嗎？有這樣嗆人民的政府嗎？所以本席要告訴你…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
卓院長榮泰：因為中央政府的預算被立法院大幅刪減，造成了不合理的狀況…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：本席已經告訴你了，我第三次告訴你，一般性補助款一毛錢也沒刪！總統府公布之，所以當政府的權力已經凌駕於法律的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我也再次回答，是立法院要行政院自行調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我相信，當政府的權力已經凌駕到這樣一個程度的時候、凌駕到法律上的時候，我相信人民的眼睛都是雪亮的，人民不會沉默的。所以本席要告訴院長，法定預算的刪減不是鬥爭的工具，必須要循著嚴格的法定程序。依照預算法第七十一條的規定，預算的執行，當國家有發生特殊重大災難，你有必要刪減的時候，還要經過行政院會通過，送請總統府以令發布執行之。今天有什麼情事呢？所以院長，你還違反了中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法中，該法對於一般性補助款的停撥、減少、減列以及扣減都有明文的法律規定，怎麼可能你想要刪、要調就調呢？怎麼可以如此呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不是我想要刪、想要調，是行政院的錢被你們刪掉了，行政院不得不這麼做而已！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：再一次、第四次強調，一般性補助款經總統府公告之，一毛錢都不要刪，也都沒有刪，是「照列」兩個字！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我再一次回答，是要我們自行調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：是「照列」兩個字！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我再一次回答，是要我們自行調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以院長，我們剛剛的討論，我相信人民看得到，人民希望安定的生活…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
卓院長榮泰：所以我們今天提出一個解決的方法啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我們不希望如此的一個違法！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們提出一個解決的方法啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以你現在提了這個方案進來，我們審慎的在審查…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：支持我們地方預算要能夠全額，一般性的補助預算要能夠全額回補之。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
卓院長榮泰：會。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：會不會？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們提出的878億，其中包含636億這筆對地方的補助，如果全數回復，我們當然全數如期的會回復給地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：全數如期的回復？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
卓院長榮泰：中央不會對地方的補助有任何的剋扣，我們可以自己苦一點…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：很好！你有一個善意的回應…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這是必然的。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你也聽到地方的痛苦…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
卓院長榮泰：中央的痛苦呢？行政院的痛苦委員有體會到嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你，你這一次刪了臺中市32億的一般性補助款，違法，影響了65萬人，您知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那您有體會到行政院的痛苦嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：包括了我們的生活補助費，我們的國中、小學以及高中、大專孩子的教育補貼，本席要告訴你，這一些錢都是法定總統府照列公告之。所以本席還是要告訴你，低收入戶的生活津貼、警消的設備以及基礎建設，這一些都是命脈，不容許如此當成政治惡鬥的工具來違法的砍除地方的補助款！ |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，您是國會議員，國防、外交、教育預算被大院刪除多少，影響中央執政，您在乎一點點嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：本席再次、第五次告訴你，一般性補助款，我們的總統府公告之、是照列，立法院一毛錢都沒有刪！ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
卓院長榮泰：立法院要行政院自行刪除、自行調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要跟你討論的，因為政治的惡鬥，我相信你也不願意，政治的惡鬥如果是凌駕在我們孩子的餐桌、老人家的藥袋、消防員的設備…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這個從去年520之前就開始了！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：這絕對是不容許的…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們沒有刪那個，那個是地方……是你們的選擇。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：這絕對是不容許的。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們沒有刪那筆錢。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要跟你討論的是我們最近碰到的關稅議題，這一次你也下鄉來聽，本席從一開始就一直建議，率先提出、行政院必須要提出預算來協助所有的產業，我們現在所得到的關稅是20%，累加關稅，平均全國累加的關稅2.4%，臺中市是我們所有的工具機、手工具機、機械、自行車所有零組件的重中之重，本席一直吶喊，你們粗估後提出了880億，本席說不夠，並再拜託你們，這絕對不夠，光880億在我臺中就不夠了，更何況全國！ |
| gazette.blocks[82][1] |
所以你們第二次提出再增加50億，變成930億，本席不管在經濟委員會或大院仍舊一再強調絕對是不夠，因為目前的關稅，我們最受害的是什麼人？是傳統產業，你點頭了，也就是在我們臺中地區這些重中之重，它不只是影響到我們的傳統產業，院長知道嗎，他們現在不敢接單，他們倉庫到期不敢續約，他們不知道要怎麼布建未來，而且影響到相應對的是勞工的工作權，現在已經有做四天休三天、甚至有放無薪假的了。所以本席也歡喜看到你們再提出增加的450億裡頭有200億是要給我們的產業，但是你告訴我們這200億是預留，怎麼評估啊？你告訴我需要的時候你就提出，請問，現在已經是急救時，什麼情況可以提出這200億來協助我們的產業？請說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這是行政院尊重立法院，需要的時候向立法院提出，如果委員有…… |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你需要的評估依據是什麼？我已經告訴你，現在已經要急救了…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員有意見的話，可以把它改成5,900億一次編足，我沒有意見。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你是行政院長耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：今天是你…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們是尊重立法院。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你是今天送到立法院來耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們是尊重…… |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你產業需求，請你將200億編進來，我們全力支持產業，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們是尊重立法院…… |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你尊重立法院？我們要支持產業，把200億編進來，全力支持！ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，你可以把它恢復成5,900億啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：支持我們的產業，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員可以提議啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：同不同意？ |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果大院都同意，我當然沒有意見啊，我們是尊重立法院…… |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你要不要送進來？ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我已經送進來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你的邏輯很奇怪！你說預留，不要再硬拗…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
卓院長榮泰：那個是尊重立法院。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：支持我們的產業。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員在立法院這麼多年了，還不懂得被尊重。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我們……預留…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、主計長備詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][1] |
報告院會，上午質詢到此為止，下午2時30分繼續開會。謝謝林倩綺委員從早上到現在都陪著我們一起參與專案報告。我們下午2時30分繼續開會，現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][2] |
休息（12時7分） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
292 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-3-25 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
213 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-08-19 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1147101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1147101_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1147101_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費
等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1147101_00005 |