| IVOD_ID |
163538 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163538 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T17:06:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T17:22:37+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de6fd0aa30ccd14467818cf3659852ed2503eea2082bcc3166d3717ab8172553e855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葛如鈞 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:06:47 - 17:22:37 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
21.509 |
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25.444 |
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好 謝謝院長有請行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好院長好我想我國的詐騙問題很嚴重您今天應該已經有更深刻的認識詐欺案件的發生數和採水的金額可以說是逐年升高想必您今天就是最好了解的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那為了讓政府有充足的武器跟工具去應對日益嚴重的詐騙案件我們透過了法律去賦予行政機關空間以及條件作為在必要的時候採取必要行動的依據不過沒想到如今卻變成了行政單位有可能去侵害到人權以及數位人權的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
過去啊其實發生過不少次錯誤下架的事件有一些平台啊比如說在去年大量的下架正牌財經網紅的粉專遭到大家的批評在兩週之前又再次發生數千人的帳號被停權下架裡面有醫師有新聞主播美妝旅遊KOL |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
134.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
設計師心理師還有出版社編輯各行各業可以說是百工百業被下架更甚者在4天前連我們113位立委之一翁曉琳委員的臉書賬號也被停權粉專藍勾勾也被下架這些被平台下架封鎖的一般民眾非常痛苦成立了超過3000人的自救會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
本席手上有他們的陳情書這裡面有五百多個人的個資以及心聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
168.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
500多人 这只是一小部分 3000人的自救会也只是一小部分他们有些人失去了工作 有些人他的工作本来就是管理这些粉砖老板的账号被封 连员工的也一起被封 粉砖立刻不见而认定他们失职 还有直接就被集团给fire掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
有人是多年的家庭生活的記錄跟祖父母合照的照片就因為帳號被停權下架消失人生的閱歷回憶全部消失而罹患了憂鬱症 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有非常多複雜的狀態所以我想要請教院長本席正式的在此將這份陳情書交給您這裡面有受害者的名稱停權日期停權造成的影響等等能不能您接下來我們就折成速發布來處理此事可以嗎我在數年前也曾經被下架過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這經過一個程序就把它回復過來您是院長不是 數年前報告委員但是這確實是擾民我們是不是先接下這個陳情書 願意嗎院長可以吧好 謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我想真的也謝謝院長接下這幾千位裡面只是一部分的這個陳情書啊那真的是要責成速發部來正視此事我想部長您應該希望能夠盡速給這些受害者您也受害過一個交代不要讓他們繼續承受這些壓力對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
待會會有時間給書發部部長說明院長你應該願意幫忙對吧我們認為我們在打擊各種不法的過程當中也是要善盡到保護一般的合法國人好的這裡面其實真的不是只是平台的責任我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
很多人都是因為政府機關的錯誤通知才慘遭下架很多人正常的經營粉專就被這些平台告知因為政府有速發部有刑事局有可能是金管會的要求去下架當平台業者收到通知以後如果不進行處理可能就會被處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
只好全部下架全部封鎖但有很多正牌的粉專正牌的帳號就被錯殺造成正版被下架結果咧爆版活得好好的還像雨後春筍一樣冒出來院長您可以看一下左邊左上角本來是一個KOL |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
329.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他的賬號被下架以後左下角搜尋同樣的KOL名字立刻跑出一堆假的這不是在助長詐騙集團嗎在右邊也是另外一個用粉專在營業推廣知識的平台就來陳情抱怨因為被打詐被下架立刻跑出一堆假的平台假冒他們的身份去騙錢啊所以我想請院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
真的要了解 如果我們打詐真的有這種錯殺由政府發出通知錯殺的情況這就是在幫助詐騙集團 院長同意嗎我們會盡量的避免但是同時這個內容的審查跟雙方之間 民眾跟平台之間有可能是他們內部的商業行為這個倒不是一概而論 全部都這樣不是一概而論 但是政府要負政府的責任 同意嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
383.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們來看一下政府其實有責任這些都是非常明確的速發部可以封鎖把服務搶起來然後我們的內政部刑事局可以說不能看台灣人不能看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
還有完全沒有證據就說人家有詐欺的嫌疑整個帳號被停權沒有證據哪個單位哪個情況完全不知道請問院長當民眾因為政府單位錯誤通報被下架以後民眾應該要如何申訴我們期待平台有一個申訴的管道政府需不需要因為政府有通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
政府如果可以的話我們也可以做一些這樣的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
提供一些管道來幫忙那現在管道待會我們會提到啦那誰要對這個錯誤負責有沒有賠償的機制很多粉專就是他們的營業的方法啊就是一個粉專就是一個公司啊第一個當然是要求公部門能夠嚴格的要求自己那如果出現了這樣的錯誤我們第一個協助民眾儘快恢復如果有不得恢復的事情那可能會是衍生其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
民事的等等問題 我覺得這個法律問題謝謝院長說要趕快協助 那我們來看一下其實現在的狀況就是速發部完全沒有管道來協助民眾其實這裡我們看一下這個通報網的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
488.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
裡面呢有審核機關結果呢完全沒有任何一個機制去審核這些審核機關去監督這些監督機關我想問一下速發部長民眾去請速發部下架有單一窗口嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
490.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
505.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們有網路詐騙通報查詢網我說的是帳號被停權的一般受害的百姓我們有申訴管道如果有申訴管道有效的話還會有這麼多人要陳情 三千多人要成立自救會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
508.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
534.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們這些很多不是我們去那個因為像Meta它有一個叫社群守則那這個社群守則很多是它根據內部的自律的機制去做處理並不是我們謝謝部長我已經都秀給部長看了你們的部會名稱都在這裡院長如果只要有錯下架你們都說是平台的責任那我讓平台來當速發部部長好不好不能這樣子我們先講沒有關係部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我相信速發部很想把事情做好我們現在是一起把事情做好我們來看一下這張圖啦我直接就問嘛中間的審核機關可以決定名單通報平台去下架這個部分沒問題啊這張圖是你們自己的圖喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
555.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那請問這個審核機關啊有沒有平衡的機制有沒有人可以二次把關這個審核機關有沒有誘因去提高他的辨識率不要亂下架什麼機制我們告訴我我們現在就是在精進這個機制那我剛講就是說很多比如像這牽涉到健康衛福 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那就衛福部來審查我們沒辦法做第二次審查交通的話就交通部來審查或者是各個部會他負責審查自己內部的內容就說像詐騙廣告是要給目的事業主管機關所以院長今天我要透過這個渠道來讓您知道這個各個目的事業主管機關的認定是沒有任何人可以制衡沒有任何人可以檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們今天完全不知道任何一個部會今天提供了多少清單有多少人被下架哪些是錯誤的我們有這樣的機制嗎如果你要再加一個機制下去那整個下架流程變更長我們現在希望是24小時下架你要再去重新審查所以就是求快剛剛那三千個人的權益都可以損失嗎三千人不見不見的都是我們要求下架這是他的社群守則 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
631.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那有沒有是你們的啊我再秀一次有沒有是你們的嗎所以我想你們事實上我們都很清楚啦正確率其實是不夠的啦我只是不想在這裡大家都是同行我想要一個具體的建議機關不可以獨斷獨行做出侵害民眾的權益我們要有double check的機制不然某個機關心情好多殺一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
657.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
682.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
心情不好 多錯一點 有什麼關係有沒有平衡的方法有打架儀表板 可不可以也有下架儀表板讓大家可以知道發生什麼事在儀表板旁邊可以有申訴院長可不可以責成速發部把這件事情做好我先講一句話我說我幾年前也被下架過那時候並沒有這個通報的平台但是那個下架就是它內部的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
今天所有的下架都歸於這個平台我沒有全部歸於但是這個機制不完美部長也承認了我們來也請委員來提供我們有沒有更好的方式來一個安全的機制我剛剛提出了有打詐儀標板可不可以有下架儀標板我們現在民眾沒有人知道誰是被錯下架誰是自己真的做了壞事沒有任何證據院長我們希望責成可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
735.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們第一個要求我們事先在審核的時候各部會依照他的部會業務要嚴格的來審核即時優化嚴格處理不好意思我時間有限了還有一個很重要的問題我們剛剛討論的是平台我們現在討論連整個網站跟服務都有可能被封鎖了我們看到速發部有說哇很成功啊攔阻了幾萬件幾十萬件啊但是結果咧發生什麼事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
736.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
DNSRPC是鎖掉整個平台跟網域啊Google可以直接被認定詐騙封網啊我們Telegram可以直接被搶啊我們連這個Azure的雲端平台的服務全部包括超商企業全部連到這裡被封鎖啊沒辦法解鎖院長知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
787.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因为公文系统也是用这个平台在建设的所以公文发不出去所以我想要问的就是啊我们没有一个机制去做但是呢部长之前有说了给平台跟服务也有救济管道请问部长救济管道在哪里我们刚刚就委员建议就说我们当然以后会在我们的这个网大通报层加一个链接不过现在遇到这种状况的时候直接联络我们苏华部的窗口我们都会去处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
787.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
816.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是另外一點就是說其實這些平台他們也有申訴的管道所以事實上可以從那個地方申訴也是可以所以申訴的管道不是一個部長您是速發部部長平台是平台如果您再這樣做我們請平台來做速發部好了啦我想我們不要這樣我們先繼續我想請問院長機關動用防詐條例第42條可以用DLS RPZ直接認定就封鎖不用經過審核為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
818.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
833.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你可以看一下各目的事業主管機關喔您底下的所有部會只要他認為有問題直接就可以全部封掉剛剛全部的都是因為這一條院長為什麼可以這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
837.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
863.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是不是可以檢討一下可不可以檢討一下這個流程跟機制有沒有濫用的問題濫用法條的問題可以嗎這個認定如果是依法來認定應該沒有司法上的問題但依法這個法它是合不合理那就是另外一個討論我們是給空間跟條件但是執行上拜託好好的處理那一定要嚴謹的去認定如果是 沒錯 嚴謹嘛緊急案件我們理解可是沒有制衡跟濫用這個我們絕對是不可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
864.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
882.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想有很多的錯誤判斷沒有把關就會造成什麼降分我想網路人權也是人權數位人權也是人權美國自由之家在網路自由度的報告2022年跟2023年都下降你知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
884.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
910.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我想院長不清楚啦我直接給你看2022年降分因為你們封鎖了因為你們屏蔽了2023年你們刑事案件裡面直接對網站刑事屏蔽沒有做任何的監督機制跟監察機制啊所以我們想要講的就是不透明沒有監察機制就有錯殺亂殺我想啊我們作為民主國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
911.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
938.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
一個數位的帳號也是一個數位的人啊數位人權也是人權啊數位民主也是民主啊數位資訊的自由也是自由啊如果沒有審查的機制沒有嚴格執行的做法就會影響到我們的數位人權院長可不可以在一個月內對保障數位人權提出報告我請訴發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
939.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
951.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
請述研究一個合理的救濟的管道跟機制好 謝謝葛如君委員的 |