| IVOD_ID |
163536 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163536 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T16:34:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T16:50:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de6e8bef66b3380eb7318cf3659852ed2501e4857ed62c58545ec6d484a9071cdc95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃健豪 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:34:45 - 16:50:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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好 謝謝韓院長 我們現在請行政院的卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
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黃委員好院長好 院長我想一整天我想我是僅次於幾位官員聽最久的一個委員謝謝委員從早上到現在非常多大家從各個角度來關心我們這個台灣的詐騙委員一定可以給我更多更好的建議我相信應該可以 來 |
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一開始我想先放一下新聞當然這個新聞片段的這個標題為什麼要特別提這個我想院長也看過這些新聞但是我跟院長報告這個只是兵山一角為什麼因為我的支持者我的選區裡面也確實有這樣的家庭他沒有上新聞他就是因為被詐騙家裡面受不了這樣的財務壓力他選擇結束自己的生命那這個當然沒有上新聞那他一定會在 |
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政府的統計數據裡面它是一個聲明它只是一個數字所以今天院長在這邊我們在這邊質詢在這邊討論詐騙問題我們談了很多數字但是我今天一開始要放這些新聞讓院長知道說我們希望要怎麼樣去解決台灣的詐騙問題最核心的是我們把每一個詐騙案 |
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它背後代表的是很多的家庭它代表的可能是每一個人的生計把它放在心裡面去面對這些事情我想我們才有辦法去用同理心去了解受害者的心情因為我想過去在整個司法體系裡面在整個大環境裡面大家認為詐騙好像是小罪 是輕罪從它的量刑 從它的判決 |
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看起來過去是這樣子那當然陸陸續續包含說發生這種詐團去虐求這種詐騙集團騙的金額越來越高有這麼多人選擇這樣的方式解除自己生命所以導致說國人現在非常注重詐騙的這個問題所以我要拜託的是說一開始我們討論這是你的前提是要把詐騙它視為 |
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非常嚴重甚至是國安等級的問題來面對這樣子我想院長幫我們行政團隊我們社會各界大家才能夠認真的去考慮這件事情好不好 院長沒錯 我們現在就把它當作很重要的治安而且可能影響到動搖整個國家經濟跟社會安定的這個層面來看它確實是一個高層次的治安甚至已經進入到一個國安的要求裡面去了 |
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152.095 |
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我想這個詐騙制動搖國本我們從今年不談去年或前年因為院長你們不斷強調統計數字不一樣那我們就以新的統計方式來看待我想從詐騙的財損來看每個月這麼多錢被騙走平均一天大概兩億到三億我想整個台灣社會有這麼多錢通報被詐騙集團騙走 |
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那真正的確實我也沒有否認說大家很辛苦有去查扣有查扣沒錯但是你看查扣的金額跟被詐騙的金額我想不成比例啊詐騙集團現在基本上是等於台灣最賺錢的行業但是我們在追溯在查扣的比例裡面我們真的效果不好啊 |
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那效果不好到什麼程度包含說今天所有委員都放了那支影片我本來也想放但是沒關係我節省時間我們看到那個影片那個廖什麼廖先生我問他叫什麼名字他在他的這個社群上面 |
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各地都傳這影片那這個廖先生他敢這樣做就表示說他認為詐騙是輕罪對他來講確實他很快就假釋出來了他把這個錢繳一繳他就出來了然後繼續上網去講說啊沒關係想要賺錢的什麼叫做尻的什麼叫做水的這些專業術語 |
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我等會都要上網查一下但是對他們來講對這個社群來講好像是一個天生的與生俱來他就知道怎麼做的事情所以比方說這個事情這個詐騙問題已經深入到很多的年輕族群很多不汙真人的人他認為反正不管我是真的去做詐騙我去做什麼做尻的我去做水的 |
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249.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
277.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我能夠輕輕鬆鬆的騙過這個司法系統我能夠輕輕鬆鬆的走進法院裡面可能連監獄都不用進去因為他可能半年就出來了半年就出來之後裡面還有一些是什麼勞務役他根本連進去都不用進去他根本不受任何影響我們看真正的這個數據我們看那個詐我們看下一頁刑度統計真正的刑度統計你可以看到說有罪人數確實你們在報告裡面提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
278.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
303.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們在懲詐的部分今年抓了詐團2025團查獲15912人這個是我們第一線的檢警調非常辛苦的把這些人抓到了那抓到之後院長你看一下這個數據啊我相信法務部也給你看過很多次了這個數據有罪的人每個月每年像一萬多人兩萬人這樣子抓但實際上真的被判三年以上的0.5%0.3%0.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
六個月以下的20%一年以上三年以下的50%那還有拘役的所以我們花了這麼多社會資源這麼多社會成本剪剪掉這麼認真這麼多宣導抓到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
322.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但收進法院判決出來即便我們修法了我要講為什麼特別提今年度因為去年通過打詐條例所以我們本來期待的我們第一時間期待就是說為什麼要修打詐條例當初修打詐條例包含修新法339條之四都是因為說過去看到這樣的數據覺得這麼多人犯罪我抓到了我們希望他至少判刑他的這量刑能夠重一點能夠懲戒比較稍微效果但是從去年修完法到今年為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你看這個數據它的比例並沒有明顯的改變欸六個月以下還是佔兩成多一年以上 一年以上 三年以下的也是要佔五成真的被判到三年以上我們打詐條例希望懲戒的所謂重罪要判到三年以上的一樣只佔百分之零點多而已不佔百分之一喔到底問題出在哪裡到底是我們修法不夠嚴謹還是司法系統判決哪裡出問題還是整個法界 我們整個政府機關對於詐騙沒有把他視為重罪才有導致這個結果我們嚴查嚴辦的部分請部長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
406.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這部分這份統計數字的話因為我們那個詐偽條例的提高刑度是在去年一一三年八月才開始實行那案件的偵辦必須要有一定的時間那我相信這些數字應該是屬於判決確定的一個案件這個是在舊法時期就是最多是用那個刑法三三九之四的那個刑度那目前的話我們的確是有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
认为这个技能新法的成立而且这个诈团的期限一定要再压制所以我们有要求检查要具体修行那具体修行我们台高检署也有定一个球形的一个标准给检查做参考那我们要增加那个积压率让这些诈团的这些手模这些以及用握力板的条款 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
來做一個遏止這些詐團的棄業我想這部分的效果會一段時間就會很明顯的看出來那我再跟委員做一個補充剛才委員有說料性攔截側面這個是警方已經移送給Unity監視我想Unity會火速的來處理這個案件來以正視聽因為這一種的話有涉及有可能會涉及到刑法153條的善或他能犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
犯罪的這一種 緩衛秩序罪的這些的問題那我想這個的確是此風不可漲這個真是一個假釋中的一個這個怎麼可以去散貨委員部長 這個個案喔那我想這部份這個個案當然要處理啦這個個案當然要處理但是我們今天見為之助嘛今天他敢這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
487.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他可以光明正大的那是因為剛好他這個影片我不知道為什麼突然在社群上就爆紅了我也是在社群上看到他發現這個人怎麼那麼囂張但我相信這樣子的心態這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
488.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個社群它這樣子的組織它不是唯一一個一定前面很多人做過類似的事情不斷的回溯不斷的再來一遍又一遍包含說前面也有問的我們這種判所謂的詐欺犯罪這些輕罪的人他們的債範率到底多少多少人被抓了被判了半年之後我出來然後我繼續投入同樣的產業繼續再做一樣事情這部分的數據到底我們法務部有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
513.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這部分我們有委員有需要的話我們可以提供給你們做一個參考那我想這個這個輕判的這個大家社會認為輕判我相信在一個假以時日我想這個整個效果會顯示出來因為我跟委員報告其實以前我們繳證署在監的這些受刑人是以毒品最多現在新收的都已經是詐欺最多了那個毒品的這邊一直降從五成降到四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
540.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
562.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在榨漆是一直在增加那個比例所以現在新收人犯新收最多的就是榨漆犯所以我想這個效果我們新法施行之後已經見到它的效果但是我們在等這個時間因為總是要一個審判的期間這樣才會看出它具體的成果這種數字是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
579.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那個還沒有確定的一個我們希望這個數字能夠盡快呈現因為我提到了去年八月到現在快一年了那當然這個數字案件辦董事要有一定的心法要加快啦這個我是希望說行政的立場也好或是從司法立場也好或從我們多數民的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
581.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個騙就是事實嘛我錢一直被騙走我每個月這麼多民眾的錢被騙走如果我們把它視為常態的一般像以前這樣我要這樣強調為什麼一開始我要講這個案例就是因為我們過去當然你把它視為說這個是整個國家裡面其中一項事情那當然我們就按照流程來處理但今天我想詐騙的問題是動搖國本動搖民間的資產這個真的是我們常常講以前常常講長富於民啊沒想到民間有這麼多資金可以被騙耶一直被騙耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
623.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這部分當然希望說這些去做詐騙的人就算他是車手車手被視為說是整個詐騙的產業裡面最底層的但是如果沒有這些車手詐騙也沒辦法成因為你每次都講我們也抓不到手謀啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
626.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
654.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
總是要把他手腳砍斷這個跟委員報告我想我們努力現在破獲了今年來就破獲2200多個炸團有 我看到報告上面有這個數據不是只有單純一個數據這個炸團整個一個非常大就一個炸團的話就可以壓50幾個人所以我想我們的努力我想如果委員有在注意我們檢警調的這些的懲罰的績效我想你就很有印象 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
654.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 部長謝謝再來談一下方法論的部分當然過去我也非常關注詐騙包含因為這是我自己的支持者親身經歷過所以我再提近代域立法院包含提了電信管理法這個二類電信詐騙我們要處理因為二類電信過去也是很多人透過二類電信這個法律的修正也走了一年才終於在基點終於刪讀那後續現在正在執行那當然執行成效好不好也需要等待時間出來那二類電信接下來還有什麼問題要處理我們的所謂的預付卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
684.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
695.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
傳統名稱移工卡 外勞卡這部分兩百多萬一路在外面 辦兩百多萬張但說真的 我國的所謂不管合法的 非法的移工大約就一百萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
696.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
717.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就像你把桃園外島全部抓進去一百萬左右但是我們的卡有兩百多萬張那到底多的卡去哪裡了我們到底現在查到什麼程度在給我的數據裡面目前只有查了一百六十五萬筆那我就很好奇啊電信是有心靈資料的我們如果總外籍人士只有一百萬左右而已我有兩百多萬張卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
718.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
729.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
它不是應該很快可以匹配出來這張卡跟那個人有沒有在一起吧同一個人取下兩張卡有沒有在一起吧這不是應該很好查試為什麼要查了這麼久然後還有這麼多卡查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
730.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
754.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
跟委員報告這一部分我們是預計在8月底3家的239萬全部都清查完畢之所以會有時間的限制是因為當初有一些茶的量能專線怕影響白天入出境管理局的作業這邊我們也謝謝新市警察局跟入出境管理局移民署跟我們的合作這一塊到8月底都會清查出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
755.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
776.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那另外委員也關切了說這一塊部分其實到現在為止也已經停花了25.6萬拒絕申辦了14.6萬所以8月底以前這些全部都清查完畢我今天提這個就是希望說我們這件事情就一開始我所講的我們希望整個行政系統應該把這件事情視為第一要務 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
777.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
800.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
能夠阻止的不管是電信詐騙也好網絡詐騙也好金融詐騙也好我手上就有了資料就是你們能夠確實掌握到資料至少先把這個先斷掉嘛那其他的他用新的手法來騙用新的手法來鑽漏洞我們才有餘力去追查但是你現在是至少要先把手上能夠擁有的先處理完如果連手上擁有的本來我提到的心靈資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
801.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
823.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一個人匹配他有兩張卡這兩張卡在不同地方出現他就擺明不同的人在使用這個應該就可以直接禁掉了不需要等那麼多時間對 這邊我們最後清查完畢就是他如果已經出境那卡還在國內就要給他停掉另外委員關心的此卡的數量部分我們也已經在納管就是說外國人大概只以一門為原則本國人是兩門 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
824.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
841.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那如果说超过两门他要加强的KYC的一些封控也要求业主来做到这一点那我们未来除了在我们KYC指引之外我们现在在政委的打炸的修法里头我们打算修入就是打炸条例14条那边去 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
842.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
856.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好主委謝謝喔院長接下來還有一個剛剛你提到說其實我們真的銀行很辛苦第一線警察很辛苦所以我們常去阻詐是用人工去阻詐行員說你不可以轉警察就說你不能轉他就硬要轉然後把他轉出去發現自己被騙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
857.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
886.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我能參考新加坡啊因為你剛提的沒錯詐騙是全球問題就連法律大家認為最嚴格的新加坡他們詐騙也非常嚴重所以他們今年提了一個法案Protection from Scams Bill的一個法案做什麼事情他就是從被害者的角度去出發今天我們是用柔性勸導的我們台灣是用柔性勸導說你不要轉啦那如果堅持要轉他還是能轉嘛新加坡他們的法案我認為是我們國內可以參考的方式他認為有疑慮的他就發出限制令 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
888.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
912.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個帳戶不能把這個錢轉進去大筆的不能轉但是要保留你的生活費你有對詐騙的疑慮警察來介入 司法機關來介入把相關的錢保護起來雖然是圈存 凍存 凍結起來但是你的生活費你要繳學費你要繳房貸 你要繳日常的生活費一樣可以繼續支出這樣的方向有沒有可能在我們中華民國政府裡面來試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
914.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
925.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
因為我們到底是一個教育自由高度自由的國家跟社會我想要這樣做以保護被害人的身份是值得考量但是一定要取得社會的共識應該把這個議題讓大家來討論好謝謝黃建豪委員資訊 |