| IVOD_ID |
163533 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163533 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T15:35:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T15:51:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de63d814bedca50e4de18cf3659852ed25088e117da0b2e7151ead3c9815bd815b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:35:37 - 15:51:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.332 |
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林委員好院長好 辛苦了今天早上也聽到院長在講就是說你也認為說國人也不一定會滿意打詐的進度派給政府多一點時間這是左院長早上的反應其實我在民間也有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.169 |
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| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
大家對於說這個打詐雖然政府有在努力在做但是還是有一些疑慮就民間的一些反應我來跟部長請教一下第一個 為什麼打詐會越來越多呢第二個 被騙的人為什麼都被判那麼輕呢第三個 被詐騙的錢能不能追回來大概這三項能不能請院長先簡短的答覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
57.244 |
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因為對詐騙集團來講第一個他有利可圖他後面一定是一個幫派一個組織所以是大規模的在從事另外手法不斷的翻新再來就跟境外的合作經常把他的基地台等等可是我們有打詐釋法了耶為什麼會對境外的部分我們還要跨境的合作雖然有一些合作但是我想速度跟這個數目上遠遠不及這個才是越來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.238 |
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打詐的這個集團越來越猖狂的一個原因那怎麼辦我們法令也給行政院也送來立法院也通過了所以我們說的我們希望從市詐開始讓人民知道說什麼是有陷阱的什麼是你不應該加入的用這個方式來阻絕源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.989 |
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再來就是把從市帳 房帳 主帳 整帳各方面一路的下來如果只是用抓的 抓不是抓的抓當然是最後端了啦我先請教一下這一個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
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第一個就是有關165 165很辛苦早上也有同仁有問過就是說165現在有50名的工作人員然後平均每一天要接到1200通到1500通的電話請教一下院長在它法制化之前能不能優化補它的人力讓最前線的我們同仁不用這麼的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
144.396 |
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167.847 |
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謝謝李委員關心第一線工作人員確實值得需要鼓勵我多次去到165中心看他們在接電話第一個要非常有耐心第一個要非常極致的反映出對方來的詢問問題能夠給他解答第三個要能夠告訴他後續應該有些什麼救濟的行為對一個專業訓練來看是非常非常現在是50門50個嗎47 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.128 |
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47人力夠不夠我想以這個現在的量來講的他們都很辛苦還是會按照從哪邊調過來的寶一調過來的還希望他增加外語的人力短時間之人力能不能增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
188.996 |
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213.625 |
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人力當然是可以增加但是我想李委員可能會希望我們能夠在科技上面譬如說我們要導入AI的系統或者導入這個圈存電子化或者是系統性的上限而不是像以前好像街市化一通一通填寫這樣子這樣可以減輕第一線同仁的負擔等於優化對 優化這個優化在科技面上面我們已經開始補充人力跟優化這個能不能做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.485 |
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238.47 |
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當然沒有問題 但是還有一個就是讓它法制化那有沒有一個期程 短期間我們先補充人力先優化然後長時間法制化同時我們從7月開始的時候也會提供這個獎金按照他們的這個程度提供2000到1萬元預計短期要補到多少人你們認為現在他們輪調是沒有太大問題但是今天太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.09 |
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253.843 |
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我願意再來提醒說因為每一次接電話都耗盡很多的心神而且心理的壓力也會很大所以今天早上委員在提醒的時候就是說要給他們做一些心理諮商的協助跟支持這一點我們已經馬上交辦了沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
254.883 |
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280.079 |
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我也認為院長這邊能力我覺得短時間在增加這47名可以說是精英他們這樣子每天24小時也不斷電在服務我認為說第一個當然就是身心雙方我們要稍微注意一下第二個就是說能夠增加能力就增加能力讓他們不至於這麼的疲憊好不好謝謝委員關心我請內政部就短期的這個委員所講的短期的部分你一定一個計畫我們來進行核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
300.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那再請教一下這個院長高齡詐騙的問題因為我們現在進入高齡化了那部長可以先請問進入這個高齡化了那大家也知道說現在高齡化的長者他們可能現在有錢也有錢但是這也容易成為詐騙集團他所覬覦的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
319.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其實在日本他們其實有在去年有公告一個保護國民免受詐騙的綜合對策他其實有針對這個是高齡化的比如說推動跟金融機構合作針對長期未使用ATM轉帳功能的高齡客戶然後就是限制他的金額或是說銀髮族家用電話安裝防騷擾的裝備或是說我們能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
328.277 |
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351.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
讓長者在領錢的時候稍微增加他的不方便性因為我知道說在這個比如說在保單這方面就是說他們有設計就是說那你如果是長者要來解約這個保單然後他們就問說那為什麼要解約甚至有多一個人就是說你必須要家裡的其他的人知道這件事情而且同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.612 |
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376.225 |
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這個長者才能去把這個保單做這個解約的這個過程那我就想說我們對於高齡的長者這部分能不能多一些關懷然後多一些在這個法令上面給予他們協助因為其實在今年4月的時候我就跟林志傑教授一起來談到說有關於高齡財務風險管理不足的這部分那這部分這個彭主委你要先回應一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.918 |
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402.55 |
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跟委員說明一下有關高齡跟他講說我們對於保單有解約金的這些註記的部分因為牽涉到法律我們已經請幾家公司他們已經開始跟客戶在做這個示範了在做這個我想就是高齡者他要解約必須要其他家人通知就是你要如果是要解除這個的話要通知這個就跟我們那個比如說我們的那個土地啊房屋要過戶那個是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.41 |
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425.038 |
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那另外剛才講說對於ATM異常的部分我們已經納入全面的管控就是假設這個很久沒有領那我說有沒有特別針對長者因為我是在講說高齡化這部分高齡的風險其實我們對高齡化的這一部分一些的保護我們就是我們不是歧視但是我們需要多一些關心跟照顧這個就是我們現在正在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
428.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這樣有在做嗎 有你的方案是什麼 我怎麼不知道就剛才講 因為早上也有人問有關ATM管控的部分細節我不方便在這邊說但是我們已經針對各種異常的現象做一個全盤式的我覺得像日本那種我剛提到這個你們可以做一些參考就是說讓高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
467.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他們要在做這個不管是提款或是說解約這方面的話多增加一些他的家人能夠關心他這也是我們現在在鼓勵他們往這個方向來走那我再請教一下院長早上結果這個同仁有問到 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
468.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有一個是自稱是詐騙集團的車手然後他假釋之後他高調分享他的詐騙還說自己的判決書可以當履歷表早上有播這個影片我聽政部長也說好像要去抓還是劉部長這個其實網路上都找得到他的編號 他的名字他司法判決書都找得到我不曉得說現在掌握的情況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
報告委員我來補充一下好嗎這位姓廖現在已經被移送到雲林地檢署現在今天嗎13號然後他在8月9號的時候已經有將這個影片下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以現在在民眾流傳的部分應該不是是其他的部分這個在流傳的部分就之前拍的就對了他現在你說他現在已經對 那這位廖姓詐欺嫌犯的我是覺得囂張因為他總共被移送28次 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.95 |
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這個就是問題為什麼可以移送到28次然後他繼續出來就是我要凸顯一下這幾個問題第一個對年輕人來講他覺得詐騙不是丟臉的事情他可以甚至拿來炫耀第二個就剛才我提到的判得很輕因為他投資報酬率很高所以我們要修法我們防詐條例要修法包括禁車條款可能要放到裡面會比較好第三個就是說詐騙的金額高但是和解的金額很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.652 |
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合解性很低啊然後輕易就能夠假釋啊那就是法令上不足的問題啊對 所以我們詐欺犯罪危害條例一定要修那現在其實在貴院的內政委員會其實也是在修法的這個研議當中那還包含這個法務部啊早上我也聽到這一個同仁有在提到啊現在就是說這一個你只要願意去跟受害者和解 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那和解的金額不是你詐騙的金額是你我自己拿到了這個金額那結果就用這個金額去做和解了也都行得通我們這部分是不是我們盡快來做這個修法那不然這樣子的話那對於這些詐騙集團來講代價太低了所以受害者來講請恨以堪 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
606.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
624.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我了解的部分是法務部已經跟司法院他們在研議當中看怎麼樣從法治上面來解決這方面的問題法務部已經提出修正草案 限定送行政院在審查中了那要徹底解決這個問題因為我們覺得這個是很不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
625.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個非常的不合理因為當初立法的時候本來就是採全部的損害而說但是後來實際運作司法院的法院的作業他是採個人報酬說後來他是有不同有少數的採全部的損害說這個就是我相信很多立委也都有提案那現在就是我們等院版等院版看何時送來立法院院版就代表這個行政院的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
679.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他這部分在審查現在也在開審查會議請司法院來表示意見我想進訴的時候完畢就送立法院來審議我覺得這個太誇張了光從早上大家在談的這個例子就凸顯了好幾個問題就大家覺得說你詐騙那幹部長你提到說他被抓了26次那26次就出來那為什麼大家會覺得說我回到我之前所講的為什麼現在都判得那麼輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
697.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們檢察官起訴的時候起訴的第一個起訴可能量刑就不重那第二個到法官那邊判決也不重判決法官跟委員報告那這部分的確是有量刑的的確是都大部分集中在一年到兩年之間那是外界判決最低的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
699.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
現在我們有一個具體球型50條 炸白條50條具體球型我們在高檢測有一個球型的標準給檢考做一個參考我想他們可以來因為現在剛開始在做而已我想大概一定時間效果會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
733.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
跟委員報告因為很多類似這樣的一個法律的修法法都必須跟司法院進行討論那我們也發現到當中無論是行度或者是速度以及他這個修法的過程的程序都有問題所以我已經拉高到由雙方的秘書長來進行交涉希望能夠把這個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
735.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
753.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
趕快一點現在就是大概去年是這個時候這個打炸專法通過了現在一年那其實就是說包含兩位部長院長都有提到說我們相關的法令這一年之後的確有許多要去做修改的譬如說第一個加重我們的犯罪的刑罰第二個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
754.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
768.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
強化犯罪的被害的補償第三個呢 研議犯罪禁車的管制我覺得說這個一年這樣子下來之後大家發現說有這一些不足的地方我們也希望說行政院趕快來補這個漏洞好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
769.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
792.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好的 我們會請司法院一起配合我們會盡快來處理好 那這個你剛才提到這個市詐的部分我跟院長提供一個數字就是說現在在青少年的部分就是在19歲以下我們這個市詐欺的嫌疑犯人數每年都增加從111 112到113每年都增加然後這個車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
797.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
826.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
擔任這個車手是在12歲到17歲這個佔車手的比例高達六成就是說年輕人現在就是被抓起來當作車手裡面的大概有六成是屬於青少年的這是一個非常嚴重的問題這部分怎麼去做處理院長少年事件的處理我們跟司法院也在進行溝通當中還有教育部我覺得教育部也要來做處理就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
827.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
855.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第一個大家覺得說車手第一個就是量刑青現在很多詐騙集團也是找年輕人去當車手然後量刑青很容易就被假釋所以都是當年輕人用車手所以財委部長你講提到說被抓了二十幾次然後就出來這麼高調的拍影片這是一個問題我們在年輕人12歲到17歲裡面車手的嫌疑犯裡面竟然有六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
856.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
879.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
都是年輕人然後有關主詐的這部分來 主詐 張款的這一個流項面現在就是說我們對於警示金融帳戶剩餘款項的返還這方面的速度我們是不是可以再加快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
882.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
897.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
各個案子他有不同的情節太陽所以他沒有辦法定出一個一定的標準我們現在平均大概是多少時間這個現在很難講一個平均的數字有的會幾日有的會比較長的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
902.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
918.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
請金管會來研議這個警示金融帳戶剩餘款項的返還的進進作為我時間有限 最後再請教一下這個應該是跟信息有關的就是說有關於清查非國籍預付卡手機門號的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
923.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
950.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
目前來看 這個是五零價到現在為止 這應該是多到幾年級為止大概清查 財清查兩百五萬 財清查一萬多這個我請院長要去確定一下是 因為他們是說今年八月應該是今年年底以後會去檢查一天百多萬我們請院長來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
953.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
953.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝李坤貞委員的質詢 |