| IVOD_ID |
163525 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163525 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-15T11:53:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-15T12:08:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/feafe23bd7168de6462838dfeb59ad6c18cf3659852ed250fb52be572812adaf29602ffc9a9b6cbf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:53:01 - 12:08:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第25次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢（8月15日）。二、行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢（8月19日）。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝院長 我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
50.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
黃委員好好 卓院長好剛剛這個聽了很多委員的質詢相關的訊息統計資料當然跟包括法務部部長大家對這些統計資料的調查的方式時間點你們有一些要做說明但是我是覺得這樣這些統計的數字包括這些曲線的上上下下在人民的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.872 |
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79.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我覺得有感報告裡面有講過一萬件、兩萬件、幾百件這個數字對任何一個個人用詐騙的那個人看到這個數字有感第二個呢這個打詐的這個儀表板在很多公共政策在跟人民宣傳的時候都有這個儀表板 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
108.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這儀表板 我也常常接到朋友說你這蟲蟲 詐騙這麼多 這麼久還有一個辦公室 也是在詐騙我們說 沒有啊 這詐騙有在改進 有在進步你看那個數字怎麼樣 可是這有時候人民聽不下去我覺得這個困境要想辦法突破這個困境要想辦法突破 譬如說剛才有人說到酒駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
139.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
用酒駕 現在量有減可是也有酒駕也有酒駕致死啦所以我跟這個院長交流一個概念跟院長報告的時候你說我們現在這個詐騙有五大類型這樣聽起來很危險的是說我們知道有這五大類型你們按照AI去分析 包括卡電回一次他講的這個內容第六個正在形成中 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
140.888 |
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165.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們花很多時間在處理這五個可是對詐騙集團的人來說你這五個我都知道你中華民國政府知道這五個我當然不會再用這五個我會形成第六個 形成第七個所以這一塊我是請卓院長跟打詐辦公室或相關的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這一部分可能要再精進就是說正在形成中的詐騙形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
要提早啊能夠因應 委員所說的是我剛剛說的假投資假交友假網購假買家騙賣家還有假檢警這五大這五大只是他受理案件60%都是這五大 財損90%都是這五大其他當然還有很多各種形態都有那在達渣儀表板上面就會有很辛苦把他 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
211.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
內容都把它太陽化出來我們不會放掉其他小的我意思是說20年前可能就沒有什麼詐騙這個事情以前可能有什麼金光黨這種的 我們了解金光黨現在這10年 假設我這個詐騙這個事情這個技術 方法一直變數位平台的發展它一直變 它一直變的時候要醞釀一兩年 吃一兩天就變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
啊 原來這種的也是詐騙就被我們的政府啊收錄到詐騙的形態然後我們就開始去研究怎麼樣防止然後怎麼告訴大家說這種的叫做詐騙我的意思是說 想這個東西我們要做在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.663 |
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273.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
用方法論來想這件事情如果要想在前面阿是不是世界各國阿世界各國也有很多詐騙的嘛那世界各國有沒有正在形成中的這種詐騙型態台灣現在沒有可是我們總是有專業的人員阿齁全世界你們有在交流 交流之後想說喔 這次有可能是台灣的發生提早阿 把這件事講給他看 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.784 |
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284.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你提早把這個事情提早防範在前面不然我覺得我們的政府現在都在做已經發生的事情然後我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.083 |
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312.711 |
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在處理啦我們還有一個就是預警中斷他的詐騙所以我們剛剛我報告中有提到一個尋找這個潛在的被害人而且我們已經通報了兩萬五千件就是把你可能受騙的人還不是很大眾化的一個行為但是我們認為你這個身份特殊或是你的環境特殊等等還有你可能現在在某一種平台上面你有一些接觸把他找出來提醒他不要涉入到這個詐騙那專長我請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.586 |
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343.624 |
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潛在被害者你可以跟大家講有哪些類型因為這個潛在被害人通報有兩萬五千件還要從裡面再去分析我現在就是要提醒卓院長農化民國政府如果給社會說潛在被害人是這幾類詐騙集團就聽到了詐騙集團就聽到了嘛因為你說詐騙集團就聽到了你網路上說人家就看到說喔這些人被注意到了喔轉個方向啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.126 |
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370.521 |
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至少我們保護了兩萬五千人的安全所以我是說為什麼會為什麼就是說我們在這件事情上民眾也會繼續用詐騙當然很多官第一官有跟他們一談有時候是一個陷阱什麼一大堆有的沒的這一塊我覺得要用比較好的跟世界交流一下看人們新型態的詐騙不要再讓他進來台灣這個大家互相勉勵好 第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
375.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
399.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
薪錢啦最近有人在分析這個台灣在這個跟詐騙有關的三件事情一個叫人力輸出人力輸出就是說他去外面去別的國家去做詐騙不管他去了騙台灣人 騙中國人 騙什麼人人力輸出第二種叫做金錢轉運第三種叫做幫派轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
404.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
426.733 |
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因為以後要偷錢就要靠幫派嘛好 中這個金錢的轉運啊就是施政啊這件事情我們到底要怎麼處理 我要跟院長講一個實際的案例啊有位朋友啊 朋友就他送他家人去洗錢 現在被抓起來了就整個忙他們的家人 說你們怎麼做這個什麼詐騙的 這樣對不對騙這麼多人 害這麼多人 這樣對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那家人回答說 沒有啦 他是在洗錢 他不是在詐騙然後整場的人喔 他說喔 那不一樣喔洗錢跟詐騙不一樣喔所以你家人沒有在做詐騙 沒有 我家人是在做洗錢聽起來洗錢比較高級啦詐騙聽起來比較高喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
459.315 |
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475.844 |
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我為什麼提這件事情就是說 他詐騙來的錢總是要把他洗乾淨啦洗錢的這件事情是台灣 到底我們政府是怎麼處理你總是要在這裡 假設有一個人他去用詐騙10萬塊匯過去 匯進某一個戶頭那個戶頭也是東方民國的戶頭嘛這錢之後再去用洗出來 不管叫車手去捏出來還是以網路轉轉的轉出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.581 |
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503.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
防不勝防 要洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 洗 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
505.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
525.066 |
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洗錢怎麼防治然後我們現在到底做了什麼樣的努力啊因為洗錢會是詐騙過程中蠻重要的一環洗錢這條路可以動的可能詐騙的錢啊在這一關也許可以擋住蠻多的所以打詐釋法當中就有一個就是洗錢防治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
525.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
551.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
目前的措施跟委員報告最主要那個洗錢委員提到那個案例說我們怕你洗錢那就是提供人頭帳戶都用洗錢防治法來取數的因為它那個洗錢防治法21條跟22條一個是收集這些人人頭帳戶或人頭的帳號另外22條就是賣就是提供的這種的人頭帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
553.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
571.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以如果說這一種提供人頭帳戶帳號的這一種行為的話就是適用洗錢方針法22條來處罰你說的這些都很小條的啦我給你提供一個郵局的篷子郵局的篷子我交出去你給我三千錢錢就由你去寫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
575.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
596.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個應該很快 他就發言說這個虎頭納奇怪五年沒在進出香港 現在十萬又出去五萬這個我覺得現有的金融體系這個事情我判斷應該有守住啦而且現在因為很多人沒有去整台啊出去下去你的錢就洗來洗去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
597.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
620.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以我們有第一線很努力我們的金融機構的人員我們常常看電視說什麼阿伯去到那裡 阿姨去到那裡跟他們說你不一定是在詐騙的那個我們都有看到但是其實應該是蠻多人已經不得不接觸的人他就在網路手機按一按電腦按一按錢就出去後來他才驚覺他跟我們朋友說的時候才驚覺說那就是詐騙啊我覺得這個事情是人民 現在人民不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
626.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
653.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這政府總是要想一個辦法 不然那個董事人啦可能董事給他騙啦 或是為了貪啦什麼到處十萬一百年一萬回來啦 何況到時候沒啦我抱怨抱怨啦 說現在還弄二十萬喔限期三天啊 如果沒齁 這機會就沒了這種我們都聽很多 但是這種金額數字不大可是現在很多人是 他是透過網路的錢就出去了 他也還救不回來這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
655.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
673.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
報告委員 這個是可疑帳戶人家請主委說明我知道他在一定的時間內重複的使用固定的金額或是在不同的地區短時間內不同地區一直的使用我們都有列入這個可疑帳戶詳細再請主委說明報告委員 就是有關帳戶的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
675.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
702.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
如果已經確實有被害人就是現在給我警示帳戶就會全面凍結那再來就是如果可疑帳戶的話他們透過通報的話他會就採取必要性因為他還沒有犯罪行為但他會去做一些管制那如果他覺得可疑他會通報警察他可以把這個事情把這個帳戶作為一個警示主委你剛剛講前面有一個叫被害人對 要有被害人去報案問題就自己家嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
703.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
727.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他就被害了,他就去擁擠了人民的問題就是奇怪的,我們家的四大人他平常是叫郵局去供來,或是供來五萬、十萬的每個年輕人嘛,年三、四年,他現在要給五萬、十萬你郵局也給他放棄?你郵局也給他放棄?這有你三、五、六、七、八年來都去郵局了,怎麼會給他放棄? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
733.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
755.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跟委員報告一下有關這部份 陳同剛才委員講我們正在做一些現在不方便在這邊說那我可以再跟委員做私底下的報告這個確實有些銀行已經跟法務部在合作做這些事情但是我是說這個細節的部份我們已經在進行中很好 我今天就是要聽這句 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
757.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
772.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為我感覺聽卓院長的報告,裡面有些到居心靡遺這對詐騙集團來說這叫保典啊你通過美國政府說,嘿,我就知道這裡嘛詐騙集團,他可以做詐騙集團,他的頭腦叫我們沒什麼工 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
775.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
799.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
如果我們主委告訴我們有些事情是已經在做那已經在做沒說出來防範在前面當詐騙集團決定要往那條路走的時候發現被我們堵住了其實包括委員我們是全方位做很多事情但我們不會對外說明這個很好最後我還是建議卓院長跟我們的團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
800.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
827.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這些統計的金額、數量、統計的圖表不要再糾結在這些事情這是一段時間我們對於工作人員的一個檢查的報告我剛剛有說過這個數字不代表任何的成果就是說這些數字上上下下可能有一個突發事件就忽然間就跳起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
828.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
832.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有些我們很努力就降下去可是不代表說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
833.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
858.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是我們必須對這些內部做一些考核要用這個來做考核但對外絕不承認它是一個什麼樣的成本就是說 院長不要糾結說因為這麼多議員的問嘛我們說你怕幾分啦到底有在做嗎 有進步嗎 有改善嗎這些數字啊 內部參考啊就也不用特別去說哎呦 我們這詐騙金額已經成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
863.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
879.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
已經多少金額減少多少人被害這些事情對被詐騙的人跟被詐騙的家庭來說這些數字對他沒有意義對他有意義的是兩件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
884.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
909.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第一他沒有希望叫他同樣的人再去做PAN所以他會問政府說所以我的案子在這裡醫療還會去做PAN政府到底做了什麼事情剛才我們彭主委說的這些事情現在正在做這個就是努力去做把這個事情做好真的不要再計較這個圖表上的那些數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
910.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
920.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
跟KPI 以免啊搞到最後 大家都在做這些表面功夫啦這件事情 把這個院長提醒一下好 謝謝謝謝 王一川委員執行謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝 |