| IVOD_ID |
163511 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163511 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-14T12:12:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-14T12:24:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ced7f9f61571ec9298e8af5febf1e53e6bf3365bfe6dc7ac234c49c8e960346a515b23fefa1fd695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:12:33 - 12:24:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、中央選舉委員會主任委員、法務部廉政署署長、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「政務人員應否及如何遵守行政中立原則、行政機關於選舉罷免期間應為如何之宣導與落實」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、併案審查
（一）考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員邱志偉等21人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員范雲等17人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、併案審查（一）委員傅崐萁等25人、（二）委員郭昱晴等18人分別擬具「刑事訴訟法第七十一條及第一百七十五條條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】
【8月13日及14日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席在場委員先進列車政府主管所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生先有請我們司法院的理聽長和法務部的黃次長黃次長以及刑事警察局的蔡坤毅蔡警政監警政監委員好好 聽長好 次長好還有我們刑事警察局的還沒有到 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
48.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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來 我先請我們蔡警政監是 委員好你在刑事警察局你們刑事警察局負責打詐嘛是你覺得詐騙嚴不嚴重詐騙蠻嚴重的好 來 謝謝來 次長您覺得一般國人的感受對於詐騙這個事情普遍的一個不滿在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
72.406 |
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95.416 |
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就是無端遭受經濟上損失遭受經濟上損失還有一個就是認為啊抓到判得太輕你覺得目前這些經濟犯罪詐欺犯被查獲後目前被起訴良刑覺得有沒有看到很多報導民眾的反應我不是說是不是太輕你覺得民眾是不是常常發出這樣的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
96.622 |
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121.293 |
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我想這個是常見於爆炸媒體報導的一個說法好 那麼我們知道詐欺它是個經濟犯罪經濟犯罪跟其他的經濟行為很像將本求利它其實它會去算它的成本其中一個很重要的犯罪成本最後端就是被抓到的風險以抓到後判刑的長短 是不是這樣對好 來 請教廳長最近我們看到有那些車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
122.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
151.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
被起訴之後法院一般認為說被害人為判太輕了車手都判幾個月甚至好幾個案子判了後放出來又再犯又再被輕重廳長你有沒有聽到這樣的一個民眾反應有為什麼我今天特別來問這個問題我們財政委員上個星期我們到幾家銀行去考察他們的零貴主詐的成效結果在場很多媒體就私下跟我反應說判太輕了但是我要說的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
153.224 |
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172.443 |
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判刑的長短他只是一個他的犯罪成本前面還有很多階段他要投入的成本我們主詐防詐包括就是打詐就是要把他的犯罪成本高到他覺得投資報酬不划算是不是這樣子我非常贊同委員的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
174.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
193.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對於詐騙的打擊這個部分 除了要提高他的犯罪成本之外事實上前端的肆詐 堵詐 還有阻詐這個部分就是說增加了犯罪的障礙 或是提高犯罪障礙的部分可以減少犯罪率 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
194.421 |
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220.199 |
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是 我知道我們今天很理性的討論我們都可以理解在場聽的也可以接受但是一般民眾啊他只能看到的是什麼都被抓到了還判那麼輕這就是一般民眾的痛我們做再多前面再多讓詐團 讓詐欺案件下降都抵不過最後這個判刑的輕重可不可以請您跟司法院這邊反映一下這是普遍民眾為什麼得了司法不公或者持來的正義不是正義這種感受可以帶回反應嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
221.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
237.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個沒有問題但是我在這邊也可以澄清一下我們從113年有做了一些相關的量刑跟引導的一些作為包括所謂的量刑行情的系統還有一些加重詐欺的量刑的審酌事項或是參考表 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
238.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
263.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這些我們可以從113年的量刑的量刑的統計跟到114年的量刑統計我們發現了一個趨勢就是我們已經有慢慢的引導法官對適當的量刑在一年以上的量刑比例從以前的大概六成現在提高到七成以上我大概理解了但是你看你今天講我還是第一次聽到所以我們希望司法院要加強對這個部分讓民眾理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
266.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
286.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
打詐不是只有行政院的事情司法院法官們也共同的感受到民眾對這個的痛好不好那另外一個事情持來的正義不是正義台版柬埔寨案他雖然出發點是經濟犯罪但是最後是一個暴力的家豬被害人甚至死亡這個案子您知道已經在台中地院審理多久了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
288.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
315.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
兩年多了而且到現在呢這些共同背後很多我們知道案情很複雜但是有更多的這些受害人將近十位的受害人到現在其中一個在屏東這兩年多來他常接到船票舟車勞頓心中的畏恐懼傷害還沒平復這個部分是不是在審理相關的詐欺或者相關暴力犯罪的進度您會不會覺得可以再讓民眾感覺到我們司法院司法正義有在幫助人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
316.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
340.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個的確我們有在精進的地方這個個案我雖然我通常不談案但是這個個案我特別要提出因為台版柬埔寨讓台灣的民眾真的shock希望未來在審理上能夠趕快還給受害者一個公道好嗎好 謝謝 請回來 接下來呢我要再請教一下我們要請我們的來 詐騙手法 現在請次長還有我們警政署先生 警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
341.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
370.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
詐騙手法層出不窮什麼都有 買票 買演唱會的票啊然後點去投資啦連齊交所都有好 那往下看那麼現在呢 我們所謂的行政院的新世代打擊詐欺策略行動法務部是其中一部分嘛 對不對內政部警政署 行政警察也是嘛我們看到的最低的時候是在哪裡114年今年2月的時候那時候我們宣布了一個網路社群平台廣告實名制馬上呢 案件量就下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
372.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
388.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那個金額呢 損失金額也下降但是過沒多久又開始跑上來了我們 次長你覺得是不是打詐不可能一個招數就有辦法有效是不是要持續的對於詐團是以施壓反制他 是不是這樣子 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
389.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
419.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想我們都一直持續的在精進好我們的打仗的作為所以不是只有一招就可以停了還是會起來好往下看現在我們看到的呢現在目前民眾所習慣的就是165專線嘛是不是蔡警政監這是行政警察局的嘛是的他是一個常設的編制嗎目前他是辦公廳設在寶一裡面然後呢人員來自哪裡人員目前其實他本來是任務編組是架在炸防中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
419.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
441.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那炸防中心是編制嗎市政是編制嗎也是任務編組那行政院呢行政院的炸防辦也是任務編組所以拜託我們次長我們警政署所有民眾關心的打炸他必須要持之以恆的去進行所以你們是不是支持炸器犯罪防治中心的組織化又法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
444.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
459.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 那我們要來請教一下有兩個部長很重要一個是全區部部長一個是人事總署來 人事長來 請請教兩位是不是也支持我們民眾最關切的打詐需要給他有足夠的力量持續的來做這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
460.972 |
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475.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個大概過去這一兩年刑事警察局跟我們提我們一直很支持只是說他內部的分工的問題好我後續會問所以你是支持的那行政院支持那我們那個考試院那個詮釋部 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
476.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
496.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在這個案子到你們那裡了嗎這個案子還沒 但是過程有一些大家交互問過一些意見我們全區府一向的態度是行政院因為這次要不要設置一個行政院政策設了以後剩下就主編的部分我們一定會協助來處理好 我們希望能夠在九月的時候完成但是我們要請刑事警察局了解一下來 刑事警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
497.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
502.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你們刑事警察局是幾級機關啊四級機關但是你們四級機關底下有37個內部單位來 根據我們你們還要再增設一個這個防炸中心已經37個了 你還要再增設 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
514.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
讓我們看到說那組織是不是要檢討呢根據我們中央行政機關組織基準法第10條階段性任務已經完成或政策已改變者或者說業務或功能明顯萎縮重點者你們有沒有盤點過這37個有沒有哪一個可以節省掉讓我們放資源到打炸中心的你們有沒有做個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
536.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
550.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個部分因為我的這個夜館不是這個部分那我是有參加相關會議有聽到這個應該聽到誰說就是我們還有包括聽到我們人長說來人長講一下你覺得呢行政警察局有沒有好好的去做根據第10條來進行這樣的一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
552.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他們都有很多的考量所以這個事情就磨很久現在等於我們8月6號已經把案子簽到行政院那就誠如委員所提的大概目標看能不能9月就到前序部用意 別拖啦但是你們在過程中也有提到這個部分嘛刑事警察局應該要檢討一下自己的底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
578.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
601.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為分工太細 溝通成本太高稍微整併一下整個刑事警察局對他們來講是一個很好的事情然後第二件事情就是為了打詐而成立的單位我想剛才委員的數據資料也可以呈現說一年的詐騙案件多少我相信應該在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
603.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
623.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所有部會努力下 應該兩年內應該案件量會往下嘛當案件量往下的時候 就是委員所提的業務後功能明顯萎縮的時候那個組織應該也要做一些調整所以你的意思是說 阿總怕沒得吃藥 肥腸好 藥就不用吃阿不吃藥會對身體有傷阿但是阿總藥吃得不好 身體不好 這個藥也不要吃 是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
648.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
吃得好就不用吃吃得不好就不要吃是不是這樣所以來那個行政警察局的蔡警政監你聽到請你回去帶給警政署帶給行政警察局我們希望支持你們成立常態化的組織編制但是要定期檢討如果沒有效果我們就回到我們的組織經典好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
648.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
675.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 那最後呢 我這邊還要請一下我們的次長來 我們也分享一下過去我們有一個國民法官法它這裡面呢 立法在通過的時候對於國民參與審判的制度我們就訂了一個六年的一個評估每年要出一個報告六年後要提個總結報告再決定國民法官制度要不要繼續走下去是不是有這樣的一個規定是好 來 廳長那你覺得司法院未來會不會到期後也來檢討一下到底這樣的制度有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
680.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
694.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
成效評估委員會的成立本來就是這樣的目的是嗎所以我這裡就說所以我們請人事長我們請那個權序部這邊我們的結論就是我們盡速推動刑事警察局詐欺防罪防治中心組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
695.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 謝謝那我們下一位請 |