| IVOD_ID |
163463 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163463 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-12T17:31:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-12T17:47:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/affd0e2636d87bdf86e25efcb866c3ffa8bba6e65b10b0a5308214a7159784995072d6cea2f53abe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:31:59 - 17:47:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就『新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效』進行專案報告並備質詢。」是否有當？請公決案等13案。（8月8日）二、邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席，提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢。（8月12日）三、8月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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好 謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢劉元豪 謝謝 辛苦了院長 你才辛苦 |
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陽有颱風又來了雲林地方政府已經二級開設在下午兩點左右的時候我想這個穿新台看起來還蠻嚴重的這樣的一個感覺當然我們還是希望損害降到最低也希望雖然不能得這個災情 |
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不要在水上加霜持續的擴大但是我們是衷心的這樣希望但是有時候天有不測之風雲我在這邊是不是可以具體跟院長建議今天針對這個特別條例當然是針對丹奈斯還有零七二八的豪雨是不是要一併考量到洋流可能這兩天就會造成了嚴重的傷害的時候 |
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一併去做這樣一個思考折承相關單位是不是把這樣的內容換尾然後把它納入在這個特別條例的草案裡面可以嗎 |
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我基本上不反對因為我們在制定條例的時候就是說這個條例是丹納斯颱風以及7.28豪雨隨後幾天所發生的那現在又來一個颱風在大院審查的過程當中認為如果我們有發生災害認為需要再把它納進來我想兩院再來做協商我想我們願意朝這個方式總之用最快的速度把需要的一些 |
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對災損的損害對民眾的照顧趕快把它弄出來這個是最快的速度好 謝謝院長的回覆因為總是擔心所以就未雨綢繆第二件事情是這樣要跟院長做一個討論因為面對這樣的極端氣候我想我也特別感謝院長在這個不到一年時間到了雲林總共前前後後三趟第一次是在去年的開美颱風之後第二次是在這個今年的 |
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當然是颱風來之前那最後一次 最近的最後一次就是這個豪雨的當下 院長都來到雲林不到一年來到山寺可見院長對整個雲林治水這樣的一個重視跟支持我想雲林縣政府自己也公告就是說第八梯次的前瞻治水經會加上災後復建然後再加上這個應急工程 |
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應該高達有60多億要給雲縣政府來做相關的這些治水的一些工程那在今年7月29號的時候院長到了水林雲縣水林的這個新街這個排水沖水站那個附近應該院長可以看到這個圖啦照片還有相關簡報院長可以再回顧一下 |
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這個圖應該是事成看過這個簡報檔最主要還是在講說因應極端氣候請持續挹注經費增加排水出口 抽水量能如鳥松大排 尖山大排 陽川大排等抽水站這個基本上這個基本上當天水利署長的簡報裡面 |
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就已經有透過麥空說明已經核定了這是其一啦齁那其二抽水量抽水量黃色的字這個請院長過目一下齁抽水量能要擴大那我們就知道這個事情就必須趕快趕快增設抽水站那總經費多少六千五百萬我們給了幾十億五十億以上六十億以上但是抽水站只佔了這幾十億的幾分之幾 |
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257.033 |
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也就是六千五百萬還在當下的時候到底經費有沒有合沒有合還在這邊我也不曉得啦當天的情況院長都在現場都非常清楚那總是合了那即便像這樣的經費如果假設沒有盡早合那我們明知道這樣一個不對稱的治水方式趕快來設這個抽水站增加抽水的量能 |
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降低淹水的風險其實中央、經濟部、水利署應該是可以跟地方政府趕快坐下來溝通有的你可以走,有的你可以趕快走嘛會在中央幫你支持嘛而且你第八、第四比較慢一點的但是前陣子有相關的一些經費也都持續的在核定、在支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.989 |
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287.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那佔整體的這個經費才多少為什麼這6500萬沒有辦法還要經過一年 到現在還沒有花包 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
經過一年謝謝委員提醒我們之前前幾天去過之後關了幾個大牌的抽水說是那個錢滯洪池的擴大等等我都只是經濟部水利署要嘛就放在這次的特別風災的特別條例當中將來特別預算要嘛就如果可以緩一下就放在明年以後的4年1000億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
縣管河川的改善計畫這一定要把它納進去的這個已經核定了這已經核定了這是去年的楷米颱風發生之後檢討出來的然後需要來做這相關的設施建置那我想說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
今天施設抽水站它並不是一個高技術的施工方式只要地點沒有土地的問題就像新街那個滯洪池它快要擴增可能有牽涉到土地的徵收我想那個可能有時間上的一些問題的一些考量還是一些狀況會發生這個我們都能夠理解但是如果說在出外口的地方在大排出外口的地方去設這個抽水站基本上如果沒有用地的問題而且經費也不是非常之大 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
385.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我想這個應該是可以趕快去做處理的嘛謝謝 我也請經濟部要求水利署計劃沒問題 經會如何來編定趕快跟委員做一個很清楚的答覆這個已經有編定了也已經核定給地方政府了這是地方政府必須要去做的那你再看第二確定答案告訴委員 是是他第二張的這個簡報也是那天院長有看到的你看這個鳥松沖水站堤外排水感染公址約1200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一千兩百萬又佔了整個中央合併給運行所的預算才多少錢但是卡在什麼原因水利署長當下也有做一個報告他在高灘地要做這個排水他覺得做用相反的方式是不太對的啦他跟地方政府在做這樣的溝通但地方政府有時候有時候如果不聽還是考慮了很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
造成這個地方沒有辦法趕快去把這樣的一個排水引流做好那又淹水的時候這個責任歸責歸咎於誰這是其二 其三 你再看這是行政工工程委員會的一括函給運縣政府113年度7月的凱米颱風針對林內平頂崩塌處崩塌處要去做整個這個整治的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後前前後後的公文可以看這黃色的標誌考量所提非屬災害擴大範疇且原規劃之基本設計內容及工法應與調整應與調整再來這是公共工程委員會給地方政府的意見再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
就審查意見 核實編列經費 且避免因行政程序延長審議期程最後 後續經貴府多次提報為水保署均退請貴府修正後再送 能迄今 能為獲至共識去年的開美颱風 到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
506.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
最終還是合了那可能還是依照公共工程委會給的意見包含經會 進展委已經合但是地方政府有意見所以就一來一往 一來一往又一年了 又一年了這三件事情我是要提醒院長萬一在這個地方災害持續擴大危及到人民的生命產產健康的時候這個責任歸屬屬於誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有這樣的狀況 我舉這三個例子嘛給院長做參考嘛不要在這裡推卸任何的責任如果水利署或工程會認為這個工法是值得我們堅持的說服地方政府我們就去執行對 但是遲遲就已經拖了一年啊拖了一年不遲遲啊那一下子我們遇到丹納斯一下子又遇到這個揚有颱風如果造成更大的傷害 更大的損害的時候責任歸屬是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我要請院長重視這個事情啦所以凡是中央地方充分合作這是必要的那這一件事情如果經過一年的還沒有辦法去執行的話我現在是希望工程會或水利署依照我們的工法說服地方政府該執行就執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員,剛才你所指出的這兩個地方,那個工廠是管理的,不是水利署的我知道,我剛才說的一句話就是我們補償營啊,我們補償營的時候就對了,他不想叫水利署建一個工廠去做嘛所以到現在他沒辦法包嘛,再發生災害的時候,這個債券要算什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
583.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以跟委員報告這部分我們要跟地方政府好好溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以那天議長出席以後 我不知道你怎麼說中央跟地方議員坐下來嘛 速度比較密切嘛大家坐下來好好說嘛 但是如果是說我們就一定給他啊我們也覺得他的想法是有問題的 我們也提出意見他不想照這個意見去施工 我們也會有意見啊到時候這個工廠 因為這樣低端低端以後 剛好有颱風來的時候 還造成比較大的傷害這個政見的規則 要怎麼算啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我意思是這樣 我提醒你嘛謝謝委員 委員的指教 我們會來這樣做好 我請院長 請部長 這個可能會要很清楚的有正式公務答覆我們像這樣的事情 我舉三個例子囉不是只有經濟部 水利署還有包含公務工程委員會 還有農業部喔有牽涉到這個狀況 情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
659.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個責任到底歸咎於誰請院長跟部長可能要慎重這個事情這是其一嘛其二在去年開閉台風之後也就是當年度的7月29號院長可以看到這個圖表字比較小啦但是院長應該可以看到那個台一線跟鐵路橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
676.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
院長就是站在鐵路橋的下游大湖口七小的橋上106年你看整個大湖口溪的淹水它是以色塊整個流域幾乎都是很嚴重的淹水狀況但是到院長113年7月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
到這個地方去了解的情況之下它就是縮小這個範圍就是大五口溪橋的上游跟下游處整整這個色塊裡面是一連的地方那院長後來才是也積極的做相關的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
697.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以雙邊的提防加高把保護標準再重新做盤算然後提防加高之後你院長可以看到今年的728的好雨那個色塊完全不見了所以我感謝院長但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
714.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
735.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是反而這個地方不淹水的下游處不到一公里處有一個人塵橋我們是站在大湖湖口溪橋上下游處有一個人塵橋那個人塵橋在豪雨來的時候尼西歐巴島來的時候造成靠近這個橋附近的市區斗南市區淹了三四百戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
752.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我有到現場看一看就覺得這不像淹水不像大湖口溪因為液體水位滿過堤防造成那個地方去淹水因為它的人口開持續的在冒泡冒水所以是屬於倒灌 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
753.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
最終最終水域署也查出來了這也有相關的新聞報導院長可以參考一下斗蘭淹水真相大白水域署表示下水道沒裝這物沒裝什麼就是防止倒灌的自動水門還是逆止滑所以他的下水道被倒灌進去但下水道要裝這一個自動水門還有逆止滑是誰的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
781.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
811.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是地方政府的責任所以議署和第五分署也沒有去責怪這個地方政府那地方政府第一個時間就說就是你們陽管河川大霧火溪的水淹到我們這個地方來在那邊噴口水毫無異議把原因找出來那總算找到了就是這個樣子嘛也就是說去年董事長到大霧火溪橋的時候這個地方一樣有淹水好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
811.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
837.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那今年又淹了 但是大戶口溪小周遭沒有淹水結果這個大戶口溪小的倒灌要做淹水調查理應啊 理應是淹在他們市區應該是地方政府的權限 他要去做淹水調查反而是經濟部水利署 第五分署去做淹水調查才查出說這個仁城小廈 既然沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
839.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
860.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
設自動水門導致河川暴漲大吳國溪小的溪水倒灌到他們下水道雨天早出來之後零七二爆到現在幾天了這一個水門到現在一樣沒有失色楊宇鵝來了在化生淹水責任歸屬是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
863.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
891.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員我希望如果要解決這個問題那委員能不能扮演一個中間的橋樑趕快把地方政府跟我們中央水利單位再把它媒合在一起讓它進行討論地方該做可以做或者需要協助做的中央一定來協助趕快把這件事情完成才不會我們做了一段下一段又開始積水淹水讓我們所做的工程都徒勞無功因為我時間快到了所以那天院長在選的時候特別講說未來整個整治就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
892.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
920.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
一個重新盤點然後把整個系統必須要很清楚但是在系統要盤整清楚之前他的責任他的歸屬應該要也非常清楚不然會發生這種事情不管你先核定了沒辦法施工直接跟地方政府再加強要求我們來跟地方政府來努力來做這方面的協商我們都不希望再淹水但是他確實有在改善在進步當中但是有些系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
931.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
931.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝劉建國委員 |
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647 |
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劉委員建國：（17時32分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。 |
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主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：劉委員好，謝謝，辛苦了。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
劉委員建國：院長，你才辛苦。楊柳颱風又要來了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：又來了。 |
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劉委員建國：雲林地方政府已經開設二級，在下午2點左右的時候開設，我想這一個穿心颱看起來還蠻嚴重的，當然我們還是希望損害降到最低，也希望中南部的災情不要再雪上加霜、持續的擴大，我們衷心的這樣希望，但是有時候天有不測風雲。我在這邊是不是可以具體跟院長建議？今天針對這個特別條例，當然是針對丹娜絲還有七二八豪雨，是不是要一併考量到楊柳可能這兩天會造成嚴重傷害？一併這樣思考，責成相關單位是不是把這樣的內容、範圍納入在這個特別條例的草案裡面，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我基本上不反對，因為我們在制定條例的時候……這個條例是丹娜絲颱風以及七二八豪雨隨後幾天所發生的，那現在又來一個颱風，如果有發生災害，在大院審查的過程當中認為需要再把它納進來，到時兩院再來協商，我想我們願意朝這個方式。總之用最快的速度，把一些需要對災損損害的幫助、對民眾的照顧，趕快把它弄出來，這是最快的速度。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
劉委員建國：好，謝謝院長這樣的回復，因為總是擔心，所以未雨綢繆。第二件事情要跟院長討論，面對這樣的極端氣候，我特別感謝院長，不到一年時間，到了雲林前前後後總共3趟，第一次是在去年的凱米颱風之後，第二次是在今年丹娜絲颱風來之前，最近的最後一次就是這個豪雨的當下，院長都來到雲林，不到一年來了3次，可見院長對整個雲林治水這樣的重視跟支持。雲林縣政府自己也公告第8梯次的前瞻治水經費，加上災後復建，再加上應急工程，應該高達有六十多億要給雲林縣政府來做相關治水的一些工程，在今年7月29號，院長到了雲林縣水林的新街排水站附近，院長應該可以看到這個照片，還有相關的簡報。院長可以再回顧一下這張圖，應該似曾看過這個簡報檔，最主要還是在講：因應極端氣候，請持續挹注經費增加排水出海口抽水量能，如蔦松大排、尖山大排、羊稠厝大排等抽水站。基本上，在當天水利署署長的簡報裡就有透過麥克風說明已經核定了，這是其一。其二，有關抽水量，請院長過目一下黃色的字，抽水量能要擴大…… |
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卓院長榮泰：對。 |
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劉委員建國：我們知道這個事情就必須趕快增設抽水站，總經費多少？是6,500萬元，我們給了幾十億、五十億以上、六十億以上，但是抽水站只占了這幾十億的幾分之幾，也就是這6,500萬還在當下的時候，到底經費有沒有核定？我不曉得當天的情況，但院長在現場應該都非常清楚。總是核定了，即便像這樣的經費，假設沒有儘早核定，我們明知道這樣不對稱的治水方式，要趕快設抽水站，以增加抽水的量能，並降低淹水的風險，其實中央、經濟部、水利署應該可以跟地方政府趕快坐下來溝通，有的你可以做，就可以趕快做嘛！反正中央會支持你嘛！而且在第8梯次會慢一點，就是前面有相關的一些經費也都持續在核定、在支持嘛！這占整體的經費才多少，為什麼這6,500萬沒有辦法，經過1年到現在還沒有發包？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：經過1年？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
劉委員建國：經過1年啊！對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員提醒。我們前幾天去過之後，關於幾個大排的抽水，或是前滯洪池的擴大等等…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
劉委員建國：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我都指示經濟部水利署，要嘛！就放在這次風災的特別條例當中，將來編特別預算。要嘛！如果可以緩一下，就放在明年以後的4年1,000億縣管河川改善計畫，這一定要把它納進去的。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
劉委員建國：院長，這個已經核定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
劉委員建國：這是去年凱米颱風發生之後檢討出來的，需要來建置相關設施。我今天所提的施設抽水站，並不是一個高技術的施工方式，只要地點沒有土地的問題，就像新街滯洪池要擴增，可能有牽涉到土地的徵收，我想那個可能有時間上問題的一些考量，還是有一些狀況會發生，我們都能夠理解。但是在大排出海口的地方設抽水站，基本上，如果沒有用地的問題，而且經費也不是非常多，我想這個應該是可以趕快去處理的！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。我請經濟部要求水利署，計畫沒問題，經費如何來編定，趕快跟委員很清楚的答復。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
劉委員建國：院長，這個已經有編定了，也已經核定給地方政府了，這是地方政府必須要去做的。你再看第二…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我請水利署確定答案後馬上告訴委員，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
劉委員建國：是。這個簡報的第二張圖，也是那天院長有看到的。你看「蔦松抽水站堤外排水改善工程」約一千兩百萬，占了整個中央核定給雲林縣政府的預算才多少錢，但是卡在什麼原因？水利署署長當下也有報告，在高灘地要做這個排水工程，他覺得用箱涵的方式是不太對的啦！他跟地方政府這樣溝通，但地方政府有時候如果不聽，或是考慮了很久，造成這個地方沒有辦法趕快把排水引流做好，當又淹水的時候，這個責任該歸咎於誰？這是其二。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][1] |
其三，你再看這簡報，這是公共工程委員會發函給雲林縣政府，有關縣府辦理113年度7月凱米颱風，針對林內坪頂崩塌處要做整個整治的工程，前前後後的公文內容，院長可以看黃色的標註「考量所提非屬災害擴大範疇，且原規劃之基本設計內容及工法應予調整」這是公共工程委員會給地方政府的意見，再來「就審查意見核實編列經費，且應避免因行政程序延長審議期程」，最後「後續經貴府多次提報，惟水保署均退請貴府修正後，迄今仍未獲致共識。」去年的凱米颱風到現在，最終還是核了，核了還是依照公共工程委員會給的意見，包含經費已經儘早核了，但是地方政府有意見，所以就一來一往、一來一往，又一年了。這三件事情，我是要提醒院長，萬一在這個地方災害持續擴大，危及到人民生命、財產、健康的時候，這個責任歸屬屬於誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們不想要推卸。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
劉委員建國：有這樣的狀況，我舉這三個例子給院長參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我覺得不要在這裡推卸任何的責任，如果水利署或工程會認為這個工法是值得堅持的，說服地方政府，我們就去執行。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
劉委員建國：對，但是已經遲遲拖了一年，拖了一年不支持，一下子遇到丹娜絲颱風，一下子又遇到楊柳颱風，如果造成更大傷害、更大損害的時候，責任歸屬是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們祈禱不會這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
劉委員建國：我請院長重視這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
卓院長榮泰：凡事中央、地方充分合作，這是必要的，這件事情如果經過了一年還沒有辦法去執行，我現在希望工程會或水利署依照我們的工法，說服地方政府，該執行就執行。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員，剛才你所質詢這兩個地方的工程是縣府的，不是水利署的。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
劉委員建國：是，我知道啦！我剛才講給院長聽的是我們補助他們，我們補助他們之後，它不照水利署建議的工法去做。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
郭部長智輝：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
劉委員建國：所以到現在遲遲沒發包，萬一又發生災害，這個責任要算誰的？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
郭部長智輝：所以跟委員報告，這個部分我也是要跟地方政府好好溝通一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
劉委員建國：對，所以院長7月29日那天到水林時，我才在那裡說中央跟地方趕快坐下來，速度快一點，大家坐下來好好談。如果我們有核定錢給它，覺得它的工法是有問題的，也提出了意見，但它不照這個意見去施工，我們也會有意見。到時候這個工程因為這樣而延宕，延宕之後如又遇到楊柳颱風來，造成更大的傷害，這個責任的歸屬要怎麼算？我的意思是這樣子的，我提醒你們嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的指教，我們會照這樣來做。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
劉委員建國：請院長、部長，這個可能會後要很清楚的有正式公文答復我們，像這樣的事情，我舉3個例子了，不是只有經濟部水利署，包含公共工程委員會還有農業部，有牽涉到這個狀況的情況之下，這個責任到底歸咎於誰？請院長跟部長可能要慎重這個事情，這是其一。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][1] |
其二，在去年凱米颱風之後，也就是當年度的7月29日，院長可以看到這個圖表，字是比較小，但是院長應該可以看到臺1線跟鐵路橋，院長就是站在鐵路橋下游的大湖口溪橋橋上。106年整個大湖口溪的淹水情形是以色塊表示，整個流域幾乎都是很嚴重的淹水狀況，但是院長113年7月29日到這個地方去瞭解時，它就縮小範圍，在大湖口溪橋的上游跟下游處，整個色塊是易淹的地方，院長後來有裁示也積極給予相關的支持，所以雙邊的堤防加高，把保護的標準再重新盤算。堤防加高之後，院長可以看到今年的七二八豪雨，那個色塊完全不見了，所以我感謝院長！雖然這個地方不淹水，反而是下游不到1公里處有一個仁晟橋，我們是站在大湖口溪橋上，而仁晟橋在七二八豪雨來的時候，造成靠近這個橋附近的斗南市區淹了三、四百戶。我有到現場，一看就覺得這不像淹水，不像大湖口溪因為溢堤、水位滿過堤防而造成淹水，因為人孔蓋持續地在冒泡、冒水，是屬於倒灌。最終水利署也查出來了，這也有相關的新聞報導，院長可以參考一下，斗南淹水真相大白，水利署表示下水道沒裝這物，沒裝什麼？就是防止倒灌的自動水門或逆止閥，所以它的下水道被倒灌進去。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][2] |
下水道要裝自動水門或逆止閥是誰的責任？是地方政府的責任！水利署第五分署沒有責怪地方政府，但是地方政府第一時間就說：這是你們中央管河川大湖口溪的水淹到我們這個地方來！ |
| gazette.blocks[36][3] |
在那邊噴口水毫無意義，應該把原因找出來，現在總算找到了，就是這個樣子嘛！也就是說，去年卓院長到大湖口溪橋的時候，這個地方一樣有淹水，今年又淹了，但是大湖口溪橋周遭沒有淹水，結果這個大湖口溪橋的倒灌要做淹水調查，理應是淹在他們市區，應該是地方政府的權限，它要去做淹水調查，反而是經濟部水利署第五分署去做淹水調查，才查出仁晟橋下竟然沒有設自動水門，河水暴漲導致大湖口溪橋的溪水倒灌到下水道。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][4] |
原因找出來之後，0728到現在幾天了？這個水門到現在一樣沒有施設。楊柳颱風要來了，再發生淹水的話，責任歸屬是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
卓院長榮泰：如果要解決這個問題，我希望委員能不能扮演一個中間的橋梁？趕快再把地方政府跟中央水利單位媒合在一起，讓他們進行討論，地方該做、可以做，或者需要協助做的，中央一定來協助，趕快把這件事情完成，才不會我們做了一段，下一段又開始積水、淹水，讓我們所做的工程都徒勞無功。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
劉委員建國：我的時間快到了。那天院長在水林的時候有特別說，未來整治就是一個、一個重新盤點，然後整個系統必須要很清楚，但是在系統盤整清楚之前，它的責任歸屬也應該要非常清楚，不然爾後還會發生這種事情。不管已經核定了，沒辦法施工…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請經濟部直接跟地方政府加強要求。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
郭部長智輝：我們來跟地方政府努力做這方面的協商。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
劉委員建國：對啦！我們都不希望再淹水，它確實有在改善、在進步當中，但是有些系統一直出問題，這個部分就要請院長、部長好好地督促地方政府。好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，我們努力把它完成，跟地方來合作，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
劉委員建國：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
主席：謝謝劉建國委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][1] |
報告院會，登記第22位黃建賓委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
138 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-3-24 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
41 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-08-12 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1147001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1147001_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1147001_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期第24次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1147001_00006 |