| IVOD_ID |
163463 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163463 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-12T17:31:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-12T17:47:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/affd0e2636d87bdf86e25efcb866c3ffa8bba6e65b10b0a5308214a7159784995072d6cea2f53abe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:31:59 - 17:47:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就『新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效』進行專案報告並備質詢。」是否有當？請公決案等13案。（8月8日）二、邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席，提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢。（8月12日）三、8月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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好 謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢劉元豪 謝謝 辛苦了院長 你才辛苦 |
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陽有颱風又來了雲林地方政府已經二級開設在下午兩點左右的時候我想這個穿新台看起來還蠻嚴重的這樣的一個感覺當然我們還是希望損害降到最低也希望雖然不能得這個災情 |
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不要在水上加霜持續的擴大但是我們是衷心的這樣希望但是有時候天有不測之風雲我在這邊是不是可以具體跟院長建議今天針對這個特別條例當然是針對丹奈斯還有零七二八的豪雨是不是要一併考量到洋流可能這兩天就會造成了嚴重的傷害的時候 |
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68.243 |
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一併去做這樣一個思考折承相關單位是不是把這樣的內容換尾然後把它納入在這個特別條例的草案裡面可以嗎 |
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我基本上不反對因為我們在制定條例的時候就是說這個條例是丹納斯颱風以及7.28豪雨隨後幾天所發生的那現在又來一個颱風在大院審查的過程當中認為如果我們有發生災害認為需要再把它納進來我想兩院再來做協商我想我們願意朝這個方式總之用最快的速度把需要的一些 |
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對災損的損害對民眾的照顧趕快把它弄出來這個是最快的速度好 謝謝院長的回覆因為總是擔心所以就未雨綢繆第二件事情是這樣要跟院長做一個討論因為面對這樣的極端氣候我想我也特別感謝院長在這個不到一年時間到了雲林總共前前後後三趟第一次是在去年的開美颱風之後第二次是在這個今年的 |
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當然是颱風來之前那最後一次 最近的最後一次就是這個豪雨的當下 院長都來到雲林不到一年來到山寺可見院長對整個雲林治水這樣的一個重視跟支持我想雲林縣政府自己也公告就是說第八梯次的前瞻治水經會加上災後復建然後再加上這個應急工程 |
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應該高達有60多億要給雲縣政府來做相關的這些治水的一些工程那在今年7月29號的時候院長到了水林雲縣水林的這個新街這個排水沖水站那個附近應該院長可以看到這個圖啦照片還有相關簡報院長可以再回顧一下 |
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181.791 |
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199.798 |
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這個圖應該是事成看過這個簡報檔最主要還是在講說因應極端氣候請持續挹注經費增加排水出口 抽水量能如鳥松大排 尖山大排 陽川大排等抽水站這個基本上這個基本上當天水利署長的簡報裡面 |
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228.155 |
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就已經有透過麥空說明已經核定了這是其一啦齁那其二抽水量抽水量黃色的字這個請院長過目一下齁抽水量能要擴大那我們就知道這個事情就必須趕快趕快增設抽水站那總經費多少六千五百萬我們給了幾十億五十億以上六十億以上但是抽水站只佔了這幾十億的幾分之幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
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257.033 |
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也就是六千五百萬還在當下的時候到底經費有沒有合沒有合還在這邊我也不曉得啦當天的情況院長都在現場都非常清楚那總是合了那即便像這樣的經費如果假設沒有盡早合那我們明知道這樣一個不對稱的治水方式趕快來設這個抽水站增加抽水的量能 |
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282.021 |
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降低淹水的風險其實中央、經濟部、水利署應該是可以跟地方政府趕快坐下來溝通有的你可以走,有的你可以趕快走嘛會在中央幫你支持嘛而且你第八、第四比較慢一點的但是前陣子有相關的一些經費也都持續的在核定、在支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.989 |
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287.42 |
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那佔整體的這個經費才多少為什麼這6500萬沒有辦法還要經過一年 到現在還沒有花包 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
經過一年謝謝委員提醒我們之前前幾天去過之後關了幾個大牌的抽水說是那個錢滯洪池的擴大等等我都只是經濟部水利署要嘛就放在這次的特別風災的特別條例當中將來特別預算要嘛就如果可以緩一下就放在明年以後的4年1000億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
縣管河川的改善計畫這一定要把它納進去的這個已經核定了這已經核定了這是去年的楷米颱風發生之後檢討出來的然後需要來做這相關的設施建置那我想說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
今天施設抽水站它並不是一個高技術的施工方式只要地點沒有土地的問題就像新街那個滯洪池它快要擴增可能有牽涉到土地的徵收我想那個可能有時間上的一些問題的一些考量還是一些狀況會發生這個我們都能夠理解但是如果說在出外口的地方在大排出外口的地方去設這個抽水站基本上如果沒有用地的問題而且經費也不是非常之大 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
385.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我想這個應該是可以趕快去做處理的嘛謝謝 我也請經濟部要求水利署計劃沒問題 經會如何來編定趕快跟委員做一個很清楚的答覆這個已經有編定了也已經核定給地方政府了這是地方政府必須要去做的那你再看第二確定答案告訴委員 是是他第二張的這個簡報也是那天院長有看到的你看這個鳥松沖水站堤外排水感染公址約1200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
一千兩百萬又佔了整個中央合併給運行所的預算才多少錢但是卡在什麼原因水利署長當下也有做一個報告他在高灘地要做這個排水他覺得做用相反的方式是不太對的啦他跟地方政府在做這樣的溝通但地方政府有時候有時候如果不聽還是考慮了很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
造成這個地方沒有辦法趕快去把這樣的一個排水引流做好那又淹水的時候這個責任歸責歸咎於誰這是其二 其三 你再看這是行政工工程委員會的一括函給運縣政府113年度7月的凱米颱風針對林內平頂崩塌處崩塌處要去做整個這個整治的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後前前後後的公文可以看這黃色的標誌考量所提非屬災害擴大範疇且原規劃之基本設計內容及工法應與調整應與調整再來這是公共工程委員會給地方政府的意見再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
就審查意見 核實編列經費 且避免因行政程序延長審議期程最後 後續經貴府多次提報為水保署均退請貴府修正後再送 能迄今 能為獲至共識去年的開美颱風 到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
506.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
最終還是合了那可能還是依照公共工程委會給的意見包含經會 進展委已經合但是地方政府有意見所以就一來一往 一來一往又一年了 又一年了這三件事情我是要提醒院長萬一在這個地方災害持續擴大危及到人民的生命產產健康的時候這個責任歸屬屬於誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有這樣的狀況 我舉這三個例子嘛給院長做參考嘛不要在這裡推卸任何的責任如果水利署或工程會認為這個工法是值得我們堅持的說服地方政府我們就去執行對 但是遲遲就已經拖了一年啊拖了一年不遲遲啊那一下子我們遇到丹納斯一下子又遇到這個揚有颱風如果造成更大的傷害 更大的損害的時候責任歸屬是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我要請院長重視這個事情啦所以凡是中央地方充分合作這是必要的那這一件事情如果經過一年的還沒有辦法去執行的話我現在是希望工程會或水利署依照我們的工法說服地方政府該執行就執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員,剛才你所指出的這兩個地方,那個工廠是管理的,不是水利署的我知道,我剛才說的一句話就是我們補償營啊,我們補償營的時候就對了,他不想叫水利署建一個工廠去做嘛所以到現在他沒辦法包嘛,再發生災害的時候,這個債券要算什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
583.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以跟委員報告這部分我們要跟地方政府好好溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
611.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以那天議長出席以後 我不知道你怎麼說中央跟地方議員坐下來嘛 速度比較密切嘛大家坐下來好好說嘛 但是如果是說我們就一定給他啊我們也覺得他的想法是有問題的 我們也提出意見他不想照這個意見去施工 我們也會有意見啊到時候這個工廠 因為這樣低端低端以後 剛好有颱風來的時候 還造成比較大的傷害這個政見的規則 要怎麼算啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我意思是這樣 我提醒你嘛謝謝委員 委員的指教 我們會來這樣做好 我請院長 請部長 這個可能會要很清楚的有正式公務答覆我們像這樣的事情 我舉三個例子囉不是只有經濟部 水利署還有包含公務工程委員會 還有農業部喔有牽涉到這個狀況 情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
659.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個責任到底歸咎於誰請院長跟部長可能要慎重這個事情這是其一嘛其二在去年開閉台風之後也就是當年度的7月29號院長可以看到這個圖表字比較小啦但是院長應該可以看到那個台一線跟鐵路橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
676.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
院長就是站在鐵路橋的下游大湖口七小的橋上106年你看整個大湖口溪的淹水它是以色塊整個流域幾乎都是很嚴重的淹水狀況但是到院長113年7月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
到這個地方去了解的情況之下它就是縮小這個範圍就是大五口溪橋的上游跟下游處整整這個色塊裡面是一連的地方那院長後來才是也積極的做相關的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
697.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
712.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以雙邊的提防加高把保護標準再重新做盤算然後提防加高之後你院長可以看到今年的728的好雨那個色塊完全不見了所以我感謝院長但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
714.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
735.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是反而這個地方不淹水的下游處不到一公里處有一個人塵橋我們是站在大湖湖口溪橋上下游處有一個人塵橋那個人塵橋在豪雨來的時候尼西歐巴島來的時候造成靠近這個橋附近的市區斗南市區淹了三四百戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
752.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我有到現場看一看就覺得這不像淹水不像大湖口溪因為液體水位滿過堤防造成那個地方去淹水因為它的人口開持續的在冒泡冒水所以是屬於倒灌 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
753.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
最終最終水域署也查出來了這也有相關的新聞報導院長可以參考一下斗蘭淹水真相大白水域署表示下水道沒裝這物沒裝什麼就是防止倒灌的自動水門還是逆止滑所以他的下水道被倒灌進去但下水道要裝這一個自動水門還有逆止滑是誰的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
781.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
811.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是地方政府的責任所以議署和第五分署也沒有去責怪這個地方政府那地方政府第一個時間就說就是你們陽管河川大霧火溪的水淹到我們這個地方來在那邊噴口水毫無異議把原因找出來那總算找到了就是這個樣子嘛也就是說去年董事長到大霧火溪橋的時候這個地方一樣有淹水好 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
811.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
837.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那今年又淹了 但是大戶口溪小周遭沒有淹水結果這個大戶口溪小的倒灌要做淹水調查理應啊 理應是淹在他們市區應該是地方政府的權限 他要去做淹水調查反而是經濟部水利署 第五分署去做淹水調查才查出說這個仁城小廈 既然沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
839.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
860.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
設自動水門導致河川暴漲大吳國溪小的溪水倒灌到他們下水道雨天早出來之後零七二爆到現在幾天了這一個水門到現在一樣沒有失色楊宇鵝來了在化生淹水責任歸屬是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
863.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
891.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
委員我希望如果要解決這個問題那委員能不能扮演一個中間的橋樑趕快把地方政府跟我們中央水利單位再把它媒合在一起讓它進行討論地方該做可以做或者需要協助做的中央一定來協助趕快把這件事情完成才不會我們做了一段下一段又開始積水淹水讓我們所做的工程都徒勞無功因為我時間快到了所以那天院長在選的時候特別講說未來整個整治就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
892.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
920.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
一個重新盤點然後把整個系統必須要很清楚但是在系統要盤整清楚之前他的責任他的歸屬應該要也非常清楚不然會發生這種事情不管你先核定了沒辦法施工直接跟地方政府再加強要求我們來跟地方政府來努力來做這方面的協商我們都不希望再淹水但是他確實有在改善在進步當中但是有些系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
931.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
931.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝劉建國委員 |