| IVOD_ID |
163460 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163460 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-12T16:44:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-12T17:00:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/affd0e2636d87bdfc8905de0e02c72d6a8bba6e65b10b0a5308214a71597849900ff06c9c86dfe3d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
盧縣一 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:44:39 - 17:00:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就『新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效』進行專案報告並備質詢。」是否有當？請公決案等13案。（8月8日）二、邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席，提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢。（8月12日）三、8月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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就是有請院長跟原民會主委麻煩請卓院長原住民委員會請備選 |
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主委好 因為最近我們部落都在收穫季我相信主委也非常辛苦然後我們不僅要有時候要前沿歡笑然後還要去看災 行程非常的忙碌那昨天我們在參加三弟們的收穫季的時候有人問我說這麼多災情你們為什麼還要辦收穫季還有什麼值得快樂的嗎那我心裡面是這樣想我沒有正面回答他 |
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其實身在這樣一個多風災的國家我們原住民在這邊生活了幾千年幾萬年可能已經非常習慣跟風災相處所以這一點風災可能不算什麼因為我們很會跟大自然和平相處那既然是這樣我們必須從每一次的風災裡面去學習經驗那這次很難得這麼16年來從莫拉克到現在 |
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81.578 |
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有一些地方看到一些契機為什麼要這麼說呢因為從莫拉克到現在沒有比最近這一次的這麼嚴重所以當那一次莫拉克有一些被遺忘的一些部落或者是災情總是被用說已經沒有莫拉克重建條例這樣的法規綁住以後呢很多部落是 |
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107.326 |
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疲於奔命也就是說他們完全是求助無門那我們就等一下來看一下這幾個部落的現況那在這之前我們當然提出了一些版本然後在最近會協商不過我們先看一下這些道路的狀況那這幾天我當然繞了台灣一圈 |
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也去看了一些道路的狀況那在選舉期間我有曾經在我的政見發表上面一直在跟大家說希望能夠縮動政府通往原鄉的道路是希望是國道層級的那其實這麼多年下來我們當然還是沒有看到那甚至台東連一條快速道路都沒有 |
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八個園鄉最近是在八八 國山其實也沒有到園鄉高雄市好不容易到了旗山它要延伸也沒有到也只到了離港美濃可是看見我們每一個部落的道路尤其是主要道路通往鄉公所的尤其是我們最近看到的那馬下 桃園 茂林 |
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其實你只要到可能你連災區的地方都到不了因為就是沒有路可以到所以我們希望說這是一個契機的時候我們是不是可以把原鄉的道路來做一個盤點甚至是把聯絡道路也做個盤點不是把一些道路解編就沒事了把一些道路變成線道就沒事了然後每次再找經費就是找不到我為什麼要講這個我講到寶山我們騰芝也就是二集團那裡 |
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225.01 |
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也是一樣你要去這次要去看這也是沒有道路可以去那我們身在屏東縣我們我甚至去了山地門鄉的德文大社那邊那個路是只到了德文這一段你看到大社是沒有辦法過去的只能徒步而且是非常的陡峭所以現在的那個民生必需品是用接送的方式來送所以已經16年過去莫拉克過去可是我們的道路 |
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225.47 |
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或者是說我們在修建的時候還是沒有按照我之前的理想就是說希望通往原鄉的道路是國道層級因為陳水扁總統曾經說過我們要建立國與國關係他希望尊重到原住民到這樣程度我們敢配他所說的話可是我們就是做不到 |
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244.807 |
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258.969 |
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所以每次我們在看災的時候會覺得很心疼那土板那天我有去7月31號剛好路過很幸運的是他們一個禮拜就通行了不過他有一個訴求希望主委能夠聽到就是說 |
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260.07 |
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286.928 |
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圖板希望它有一個道路是能夠通到愛國浦也就是說它不是只有那一條可以往台版然後再到大溪的那條路因為曾經在很多年以前它那條這次的崩塌的地方曾經有公車掉下去過造成死傷這麼多年它又發生了我們就知道說它會一而再再而上的發生所以我們就必須要想到一個替代道路所以在地的主任有告訴我們他們的計畫的時候其實要把它聽進去把它做好 |
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290.356 |
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308.183 |
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阿里山鄉的169線道就是明明以前鄉公所所在地達邦它只要水一大 巨石就會掉下來永遠都是那個區塊所以也就是說我們沒有把真正的癥結點解決的話它永遠就是在那邊發生嘛就像現在的我們桃園區的明巴路橋一樣等一下我會再提 |
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308.863 |
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324.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
然後就是我到阿里山鄉的時候鄉長有跟我說能不能就凱米颱風那個桑陀爾跟漢瑞颱風去年呢它已經核定的可是還沒有施工的能不能把它就再補一些金額因為它再去又擴大了嘛可是又不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
又不要再重複會刊你重複會刊浪費大家的時間因為大家都在急於重建可是有些災區它的施工還沒有開始做可是核頂款項已經來了所以其實這個部分可以事半功倍給你們行政單位去參考一下是不是做這樣的一個改變會更好我附帶一點是昨天我有去看農損 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
原住民地區農損比較特殊很多部落族人尤其是老人家他們都是住在公寮他們沒有所謂的手機也聽不到部落的廣播或許鄉公所很積極想要知道說他們其實都可以提出災損的可是他們卻不知道所以我們要怎麼樣去讓族人知道呢其實我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
368.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
387.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
就是有的時候可能要請相公所做一些操作雲端手機去操作去設定我這個農損是在哪裡拍到的直接上傳就好了也不要造成我們承辦人騎摩托車騎到非常遠的山路然後說不定還很危險可是這個事情卻就是做不到所以他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
406.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
還壓個日期對原住民來講常常壓日期的時候會覺得他很像這是個天大的一個所謂的一個Warning他會覺得他做不到所以其實有很多方法其實可以我們可以去體諒老人家在部落的生活情境所以在做事情比如說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
434.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
提報這些農損的時候要用原住民的方法然後訓練他們用科技的方法來做這樣的話會比較簡單可以嗎明明政府就是有他有想到說要做一些比如說昨天看的是那個就是一些山芋芋頭啊可是平常我們想不到的那些農損其實這次我們農業部說其實這些都可以報他們內心非常高興可是他們都沒有聽過這樣的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
458.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 那講到道路這個部分我們來看莫拉克的伊拉號就是我們國川大橋還有花了很多年卻還是沒有錄的南橫的明巴陸橋明巴陸橋這個意思它的布農族的話是很諷刺的它的意思是新橋然後就引申它是一個希望之橋可是它從莫拉克到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
459.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一直都沒有好過然後他花了非常多的經費我這邊盤點大概從最近這幾年就花了20.3億那我一直覺得說有人甚至會開玩笑在一般人聽起來會很公務人員會聽起來很刺耳就是說是不是要從這邊去拿很多錢然後這個巧思故意沒有做好所以你當政府單位聽到這樣一個話的時候你會不會覺得很慚愧明明這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
伊拉這個橋六翼那次就完工到現在是安全無虞可是明巴陸橋這麼多年了然後我們在看它的造橋的一個模式的時候其實主委你非常清楚我們那邊的就是它是架高嘛就跟水不在一起啊可是明巴陸橋它就是架在水旁邊它怎麼可能會好呢所以它一而再再而三的被摧毀啊所以在施工的方法如果就一般原住民來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
543.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個看起來很像很簡單可是為什麼政府就是做不到就是花了這麼多錢還是零然後這次這次這個風災這次雨下那麼大還是巧還是不見了我們就先談到這裡那我們講到我們一層孤島這個部分當然我之前很多委員都提到了不過我這邊要提的是無人機的部分其實我們在去年有針對我們就好有做實施操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
571.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
給當地的族人說原來渦輪機三分鐘五分鐘就可以到達你可能一兩天才到的地方所以這次我們霧台鄉長可以那麼勇敢的射水而過其實當然是不建議可是就是因為需要才要這麼做然後加上我們桃園是用那個流籠去送東西我說已經2025年了我們還是回到以前的那個年代的時候我就覺得我們一點都沒有進步我們要非常的慚愧 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
572.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
589.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後這個上面沒有寫到是水因為我到地方還是會看到說明明我是住在好山好水的地方可是颱風來的時候就是沒有再來水然後它的理由就是說水太濁了不然就是山泉水的水管斷掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
590.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
612.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我們是不是應該要盤點當然我們是一層孤島地區我們通訊這些可能之前都有講過可是這個水的部分其實你盤點的時候其實有幾個部落特別缺水的時候他應該是要先準備幾個消防水車在旁邊備用民生用水至少你可以洗澡 可以洗衣服然後其實我這樣看是高市 梁山還有東埔這幾個部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
614.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你可以想像梁山這麼大的村莊沒有水然後他們都是去汽車旅館或是附近的旅社洗澡他們已經到現在這個時候了還是在抱怨這樣的事情群組永遠都在講他們沒有水而且他們是我們馬家鄉單一聚落最大村 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以要非常的同情他們現在的處境講到這裡我們講到穆拉克的我為什麼會說是契機呢就是有幾個部落他們看到這樣的時候馬上跟我聯絡說我們能不能就趕快就進入這個所謂的重建條例因為他們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
重建條例這個名字非常的興奮是不是有一個重建委會可以幫他們解決圈村的問題尤其是滿洲的八窯關這幾個月從六月到八月他們已經撤村六次他們已經變成很像家人因為每次一撤村就是住在一個不是一個類似像一個避難所所以他們也沒有什麼隱私可言可是我認為這不是我們應該要解決問題的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
698.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我知道最近很像屏東縣政府有努力希望利用租用土地的方法可是要希望他們社區變成社團法人然後去用一塊土地解決他們的問題不過如果就有重建委員會或者是說把他們納入為遷村必要的一個條件的話我覺得是可以適當解決這個問題我們就你那裡來說那時候是有400多戶483戶政府32億民間22億共55億可是他們目前這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
707.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
732.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
粉水裡大概100戶左右所需要的經費沒有那麼多雖然當然已經過了10多年可是我相信那個經費應該是夠的那目前四穩也是這個問題紅葉當時當初在漠蘭地颱風的時候他們也因為戶數太少的問題也不列入所謂的千村的一個條件裡面所以其實這個時候原理會應該要去盤點說當初被這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
733.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
762.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
受災的這些民眾應該還有哪些有全台還有幾戶可以就這一次來一併解決不要一一再二三的求是無門可以嗎時間沒有很多了那我也有去芭瑤看我是7月23號去看的他們房屋都歸裂然後教會都已經下線那個地方真的已經是沒有辦法住是迫在眉睫所以你再叫他們去撤退要撤到哪裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
763.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
771.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我這是他們現在內心最大的一個訴求希望院長能夠聽得進去然後這次我去了那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
773.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
800.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
台20線南橫的立道端我去看他們的一個崩塌的地方然後因為他們非常擔心他們怕變成小林村第二所以有一個很大的山崩的地點在他們部落的上方石頭打下來找到快到村長的家所以我去看了後來回到台北有召集我們相關單位來研究一下後來公路局給我的那個公路局給我的圖是這個中間的他的回答是說他非屬山崩 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
802.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
819.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
地質敏感區然後呢地質中心給我的答案是右邊這個它是屬於淺市區所以我是覺得說專案單位是很努力可是應該要常常做一些所謂的媒合去看看你們的資料你們這樣講的時候是不是有一致性 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
822.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
848.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
公路局認為這個地方是安全無虞的按照他的專業來看這個山崩地沒有那麼大可是族人就是會害怕可是地調給我的資料他是屬於敏感區所以我是覺得這個部分我覺得那個爭議性就很大就是你要怎麼樣去安撫我們在地族人然後你要怎麼跟在地族人解釋這個事情所以我是覺得只要你看到這樣的部分的時候尤其是比較大聚落就是只要有人住的地方這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
849.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
869.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
從108年開始他們就開始做地質調查其實應該相關都有這些資料其實只要一旦發生的時候應該要立即告知在地的或者是當地的人我們中央單位曾經努力過的方向給公路局施工的一個參考所以我是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
870.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
885.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
國家是有在努力可是我總覺得不夠然後橫向連結也不夠然後我們一直要再回到穆拉克那個年代在討論這個事情20年要過去了結果我們還是停留在原地希望把這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
887.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
906.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
講給我們的院長聽 講給我們的主委聽你們能夠真正把我們主任先生聽到讓我們最後一張看一個照片也就是當時的立法委員也是現任總統到少年溪去勘查明巴陸橋這個地方的時候那個時候就是這個樣子現在比這個更慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
907.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
918.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們要用這個照片來記取教訓然後不要是一而再再而三的執政可是卻換來的是這樣子的一個結果我希望大家都能夠繼續面對然後好好的檢討 謝謝好 謝謝盧縣英委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 |