| IVOD_ID |
163444 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163444 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-12T10:06:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-12T10:21:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/affd0e2636d87bdf89ecd1baeef128cba8bba6e65b10b0a548a1f95477ba6fc4de437a04fce328265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:06:06 - 10:21:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第24次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長就『新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效』進行專案報告並備質詢。」是否有當？請公決案等13案。（8月8日）二、邀請行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席，提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢。（8月12日）三、8月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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麻煩請王地宇委員質詢謝院長 麻煩卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
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王委員好 辛苦了謝謝其實我有很多重要的題目要談不過剛剛聽了一下我其實有個感慨身為台南人任何人來幫我們哪怕只幫一個小時我們都充滿了感謝但是千萬不要以為 |
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你有幫忙別人什麼都沒做你有來別人就放在那邊自生自滅去貶抑當地的努力不會讓自己更偉大我們回到自己的我們的題目這一次是一個危機120年來第一次有颱風從嘉義台南這個平原的地方衝上來 |
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120年來第一次考驗我們嘉南平原我們的糧倉更是現在的科技狼帶能不能有抗災的韌性所以我們希望這一次的救災不僅是救急更能夠從根本上去解決一些問題危機就是轉機 |
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透過這個災難的重建過程把國土抗災韌性把它提高我們現在都講韌性台灣我們之前遇到百年大旱還好八年八百億裡面有關不管是工業水井 浮流水 水庫峻深或者是幾個聯通管的接通才能夠讓我們經過兩年多幾乎沒什麼下雨的百年大旱 |
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133.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們其實沒有停水它最多是減壓供水所以平時做好基礎建設遇到災難的時候那個韌性發揮出來感覺不到政府的存在反而是一件好事所以我們這次題目很多那我們在現場不管是經濟部啦或者我們指揮官陳金德啦 政委等等其實都做相當多的努力外界未必看得到那我現在要提出幾個項目我們可以一起來透過這幾個項目我們來檢視的第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
在石棉建材其实很多年前就已经列为我们一级的致癌的建材新的建物都不能用老旧的建物石棉它进到肺部里面要很多年以后才会导致肺病变这一次风灾到了把微屋子摧垮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
187.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那正在重建的過程當中能不能有一些誘因跟強過去就有誘因了啦但誘因存在那裡大家不想換反正那處大好好啊那房子在那裡就順順的就好透過這一次能不能加一點半強制加高鼓勵的方式把實棉建材從災後重建的過程當中能夠把它從嘉南平原把它掃掉我不知道院長對這個方面有沒有什麼樣的計畫跟遠景 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
188.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
214.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
部長先說一下 保養員的確失眠是一個很長久以來的問題我們台灣有二十幾萬棟的房子都有這個東西但是其實這個情況是這樣就是說如果他被破損但是他是破掉才會有問題如果好好的我們不用動他他對我們身體是沒有危害的所以我們是有編定進化逐年的淘汰我現在講的是平時的時候你們就有編定計畫鼓勵替換 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
217.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
現在遇到的是天災 類似戰時然後現在這附近的房子 石棉碼被吹掉了我們剛好要把它重建可不可以盤點一下這個社區也許還有七八戶 還有石棉屋頂要不要一起給它鼓勵說做回去 做一邊叫工 比較便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為我也到地方去看過很多那最大麻煩是有很多譬如說台南 嘉義很多是好幾戶才共有那一戶所以他們產權他們要解決這個問題就很困難所以我們想辦法要解決我今天提這個問題是點出這個問題這是一個機會我們看到是天災的危機當然產權持分你若不想要本業財產你若不想要自己家蓋新的你懂我意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在建材的修繕上管理人 居住人他不會說牆壁上釘個釘子還要持份人蓋章所以在鼓勵的措施上我們這個社區既然有幾間石棉瓦工廠石棉瓦屋頂的老宅被摧垮了就是要重建了工要進來 宅要進來透過我們的民政體系統計一下還有七戶 六戶他們雖然房子沒有受損但是在那裡你永遠不知道他什麼時候會致癌 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那透過跟他溝通一下我給你帶新的好不好給你鼓勵 給你補足把這一個環境致癌物呢透過天災把它扭轉我樂見我也期待環境部可以往前push多做一點而不是看到困難就停下來那要等一陣子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我了解委員的用意希望在這次的過程當中盡量把那些可能的致癌物少用不要用讓他未來不會再出現就在把人從 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
難以生活回到可以維持一般的生活但我們可以更進一步把他生活當中的不好的部分把它去除掉那這個就往前做的更多一點點我們看下面這個數據我請工程會來研究注意能不能在這個要做到相當的程度讓大家安心要不然這次你看石棉把吹下來連去清運都要帶防護衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那把它拿走之後 對未來抗災的韌性其實也是提高的透過一點誘因 透過民政系統 透過這個趨利去跟他講這個概念說 那是性感情的啦現在看不到二十天後換 你也沒得拖背那透過這個方式 我給他多一點補助隔壁剛才吹倒了 現在在修理 這會大打的 多做一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
397.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
人民會有感受的這片土地會有回饋的那個大概我們現在編了7.8億所以這個部分會全力來支援台南嘉義災疾因為那邊的量大到大到可能駐北部人不理解其實這量相當大他已經列為一級致癌物那個量算多的 很多很多那我現在來看一下我們這一次光台南市嘉義還有其實整個加起來是4萬多戶光台南市民宅的毀損觸定消息30804戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
大家可以想像三萬零八百零四戶那個分佈的範圍然後呢這個丹納斯颱風吹完之後緊接著兩百毫米的大雨又接著來光台南三萬多戶齁出町如果要蓬佈一戶給你用五台就好了你知道要多少帆布 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
421.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
然後那個狀況要去救災要去重建要去清運垃圾要處理人要處理產權要處理垃圾清運要附電要通信所以我還是那句話我剛才聽了一小段其他同仁的質詢真的大家都來多做一點但是不要因為自己我去的時候旁邊沒人就以為都沒有人在做其實基層的公務人員都很辛苦我們陳金德政委在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
475.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
指揮到都知道 那個其實沒命沒力了大家不忍心自己的署名 才會這樣嘛那這3萬多戶裡面呢大概我根據他的區域這17個區域還有他的坪數 大概有個分類那這裡面難處在哪裡呢我們的復健通常是叫救急我讓你不流水就好但在救急的時候這個禮拜搞不好又有個颱風要來啊對啊 然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
505.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
可能有豪大雨啊 我又要救急我又希望這個臨時的救急的設施要能夠穩固抗災然後呢 這裡有很多紅色的住在 住在北部土地的人哎喲 我們的人怎麼住在這種破落戶裡面好可憐喔 那個是標準的從北部天龍新帶看南部三合院 農村的風光那是有文化底蘊的甚至於三合院 你去看那個黃坤湖國策顧問他到現在也住三合院啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
三盡的三百億啊整個本手存手啊三合院有它的歷史的底蘊在農村地帶這種紅色處有它的美甚至有的是有文化資產保存的價值像我們台南的喜樹聚落是全台灣最大的三合院的聚落我很擔心說重建之後通通變鐵皮屋你懂我的意思嗎因為這很難啦這個我要跟院長跟政委跟部長講 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
553.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我只是說跟各位共同探討我又要救急希望他不會漏水趕快搭起來我又希望這個東西能夠很穩固下一個颱風來不會飛走然後呢地方這些老屋老宅他那個屋子那個屋子其實現在材料都沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
555.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
578.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以怎麼樣在材料、地貌、地景穩固跟緊急救急之間有它的困難度我是不是先請陳金德指揮官你有讀到這個困難點嗎這到底要怎麼處理因為這個三合院或是比較鄉下的老宅都是繼承很久就沒有繼承好幾代人60年、70年、80年那天總統去看那一戶98年的房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
582.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
598.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以它很多人共用所以根本沒辦法改建因為沒有辦法改建所以就沒力了沒力了所以每個房子都已經很老舊了這是第一個那第二個有的是國有土地那國有土地你如果說材料要重建就面臨重建的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
617.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那為什麼有這麼多因為南部 嘉蘭平原很少碰到這麼大的風災120年來第一次直接掃上來就是碰到這麼大的風災所以這一次問題才呈現出來有那麼多戶房子被掀掉那你如果說東部地區因為它經常面對颱風 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
619.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
643.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
類似的房子都已經被吹掉很多東部經常面對災殃它的韌性會好一點關於這些瓦的問題那麼台南市這邊也有人建議說台南市政府的文化局應該成立一個類似屋瓦的銀行啦有的拆下來不用的就收集有的要用的就給他他們用這個方式這位好 就指揮官這邊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
645.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你這個建議方向是對的我剛才講難處就是你一手要救急 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
直接把它搭起來一手要文化保存然後又希望這個東西能夠穩穩固固的抗災啊 抗震啊等等這個很難你剛才講是一個方向烏瓦銀行啊 古厝拆下來可以刷來這裡銀或者有一些規格比較好的現代的建材可以去取代舊的烏瓦至少風貌不要改變太多把規格訂好在重建的時候針對多少尼哥衣裳的老厝我被處定在修理的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
702.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那個規格不一樣我補助給你多一點點只為了維持嘉南平原這一兩百年來農村的風貌這個我覺得可以多用一點點心多做一點讓在地人民感受一點真的不要風災之後呢轉播變鐵皮屋這個其實是一個問題那我剛才講的因為今天時間關係救急又要穩固其實是兩難 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
704.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我沒有去到現場的人很容易講風涼話我不希望是這樣的情形我舉帆布的例子我跟救災指揮官曾經的政委討論過我現在看到一個隱憂就是帆布 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
745.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
帆布是不得不第一時間三萬幾間房子在漏水你不搭帆布你要叫那個老人在家裡淋雨嗎而且會漏電我那天去那邊被電到那個會漏電所以不得不要用去嫌棄帆布的人是不曉得他第一時間屋子在漏水屋漏偏逢連夜雨他只用帆布把它蓋起來可現在問題來了颱風今天進來這數萬片的帆布蓋在這些脆弱的屋子的頂上 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
775.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不用16、7級風9級以上一吹我們都可以想像會發生什麼事情這個防布綁著屋子 屋子本來就脆弱了綁得夠牢靠會不會像風防一樣把整個房子拔掉綁得不牢靠飛走 不用多一萬片飛走我們所有的水路 水路 水門 排水道被這防布水往低速流往那邊集中的時候塞住了橋墩塞住了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
777.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
現在面對的是颱風即將進來這些帆布都是綁著甚至用磚頭壓在屋頂上這今天你要知道這個要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
報告委員 目前在進行的 媒合的很快目前安排媒合的已經有1917 完成確定210我們認為要迅速的把這個屋頂用類似其他的金屬板來鋪上去用浪板把它蓋起來浪板和彩色金屬板我們討論過這個數據 因為3萬多戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
812.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
828.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
來爆煤河的大概兩層有八層裡面大概有一大部分是因為要拆掉了他自己要處理了還有一部分是沒有來申報的啦縱使有煤河那兩層我們那天聽到的是兩個禮拜內完工嘛在拼兩個禮拜內完工嘛那我現在講的颱風是今天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
830.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個颱風的部分我們認為帆布不是長久之計那如果颱風來了為了避免這個災民在第二次受到這個災損我們請台南市政府必要的時候應該做這個預防性的撤離我建議是這樣子如果預判這個颱風會進來會到那個位置帆布的部分要做適當的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
856.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
881.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
拿下來是一種處理綁緊是一種處理看那個房子的狀態人要做妥適的安置萬事不如人重要跟委員報告今天這個楊柳颱風應該二級的中央應變中心二級已經開設了預計今天中午左右一級會開設我們已經透過中央應變中心要求地方政府全部的處理趕快把它安全上處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
881.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
897.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
能夠讓他更穩固人員要事先撤離我今天在大院質詢之後 傍晚之後我也會到應變中心再去實地了解當下立即會發生的事情我強調一次帆布在糾結的時候是必要要做的可是面對連續的災難過來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
899.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
915.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個帆布可能反而成為自災因子這個要妥善處理我最後提這一個其實很多點我先舉個例子當時蘇貞昌院長編了78億那還被人家罵被人家笑把平和公路141公里把它2200多支電桿地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
916.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
933.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
以前颱風一來那邊停電幾乎都是主供應電線被吹斷電線桿被吹倒如果有到北門地區會發現那個電桿是燃藥折斷所以透過這次復電重建台電能源的辛苦我們未來能不能啟動嘉南的主供應電線的全面地下化把他放 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
947.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
948.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝王定宇委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長的備詢謝謝 |