| IVOD_ID |
163415 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163415 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-22-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-07T11:36:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-07T11:48:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ce960b47cc6398b9f34840d25351f11b789cec5dbd9ef0650394dc758d122e316283ac1051a9c2f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳沛憶 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:36:00 - 11:48:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長列席就「全國中小學教師人力不足現況與具體因應對策」進行專題報告並備質詢。
二、邀請教育部部長、國家科學及技術委員會、衛生福利部列席就「如何強化研究計畫之人體研究倫理把關機制，以保障人權，捍衛科研價值，並避免類似台師大女足抽血違反研究倫理之案件再次發生」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
三、邀請教育部部長、行政院人事行政總處及行政院主計總處列席就「9月9日運動部成立籌備情形與後續推動規劃」進行專題報告並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 我請教育部部長請部長備質詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
40.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
最近我們教育界特別是大學校園醜聞百出令民眾都非常的擔憂那我想請教這個海科大爆發了說台積電因為有提供給我們海科大特教生的公讀金的機會結果現在爆發出海科大特教中心的蔡主任他要求我們特教系的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
61.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
打工的這個工讀金要回捐一萬元要學生打工然後特教中心來收回扣這個事件爆發我看教育部也已經有注意到了我想要請問這個我們教育部目前打算怎麼樣來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
跟委員報告我們已經組這個專案小組去調查了我們會組專案小組已經組專案小組去調查是這一個案件我們一定要好好的來關切因為他是還是特教生 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
98.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還在特教中心那如果確實是要求學生回捐收回扣這個錢是誰拿走了是回到系上還是教授私人使用還是作為什麼使用這個目前我們有了解嗎你們組專案小組錢拿去哪裡了因為報告還在清查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
133.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
還在清查清查是指你有很多案要了解他總體的流向我現在只問一個問題錢拿去哪裡了我們只是要判斷到底這樣學校還沒回你們對這不用判斷吧錢拿去哪裡了校方到現在又答不出來嗎錢誰拿走了調查小組的資料還沒有回來這個都太慢了這個很簡單的一個事實釐清嘛你這個我不是要你一個完整的報告這個錢誰拿走了拿去哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為如果是確實挪用的話挪用侵佔這跟台師大那個案件類似這有刑法的問題喔這不是學校校內行政處理而已喔所以請你們務必了解好不好然後再來張師大的輔資系接連的爆發性平案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在目前已知的總共是四案第一案這個黃姓教授已經調查成立就性侵案成立再來第二案有一個張姓教授也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
171.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
張師大前副校長他是性騷案件也調查成立但是因為他是在校外因為學生畢業校友所以呢這個是在縣府來調查但是也成立了另外兩個案件同樣都是姓王的兩個教授兩個案件也是性騷案現在是在調查當中是不是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
214.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那因為這些案子接連的發生所以有學生陸續開始出面來揭露所以他極有可能是在同一個時期當中所爆發的集體的失對聲權利不對等關係下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
229.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
性平案件 極有可能是這樣我們還在了解當中對不對但是我要請教的是因為這個張姓這個前副校長他的案件你們知不知道他是畢業的校友是什麼時候投訴的在113年去年9月就申訴了什麼時候調查成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今年六月調查成立今年七月這個前副校長就馬上閃退申請退休那在這個案件發生之後才開始有其他的學生出來然後也才有後續兩個王姓教授的性騷案件開始在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
289.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也就是說其實從這個校友第一次投訴去年九月到現在其實將近一年的時間了我希望教育部也可以去思考協助張師大一起來討論在這一年的過程當中我們有沒有可能提早來去發現倘若它是一個集體性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
300.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
教授在同一個系上在同一個系上對於學生有性騷同時還有性侵案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
324.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們有長達一年的時間我們有沒有可能提早發現那張師大在案發之後就前兩天發一個公開的聲明讓我覺得台師大跟張師大是不是有一個師大GBT這個聲明都很像他說呢因為這個調查的過程當中這個細上都不知情 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為呢 性平案件在校方調查校外案件在縣府調查所以張氏大新府系竟然說過程當中他們都不知情啊調查成立他們才知情部長你覺得合理嗎呃 無法想像要等到調查成立 系上才會知情部長你也覺得無法想像嗎所以這樣的聲明我認為這就在包庇啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
372.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一年的時間他們都不知情按照法規啊你有性侵案件在調查當中其實就可以開教評會不是嗎有沒有可能他在調查當中就可以來停聘了嘛對不對 按照法規是可以的所以系上不可能在調查過程當中不知情嘛系上 系方應該是要保護學生怎麼會屢屢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
怎麼會屢屢的都沒有辦法保護學生然後呢都卸責都說我們不知情要是我們可以更早知情我們就會好好保護學生好熟悉的話真的是這樣嗎是不知情還是包庇呢所以教育部現在也說對張師大你們也會來來進行調查嗎過程當中有沒有行政疏失是我希望不要輕輕放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們一定會有一個專業小組把它調查清楚在這調查過程當中這一年當中 系上完全不知情嗎 知情到什麼程度為什麼過程當中沒有主動來協助學生你說停聘 它有法規的要求我們都可以理解但是法規也有給我們工具可以停聘的不停聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
可以就算不停聘主動給學生提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
輔導的資源一年的時間都沒有做部長你也很難想像我也覺得很失望所以趕快來亡羊補牢當事人就馬上應該要先趕快來亡羊補牢好不好那現在我認為這個第一我們校方應該要提供一個單一的申訴機制不應該是再去網路上面去搜尋哪個學生今天說了什麼明天說了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
490.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
過去一年為什麼學生沒有主動向系上來投訴很有可能這個裡面已經有信任的問題了來一個單一的申訴機制第二個一定要來提供輔導的資源好不好好那最後呢這個台師大的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
513.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
大家都很關心那我今天想要釐清兩件事第一個因為我們世代IRB的陳教授今天有來現場嘛7月22的時候出席未還委員會立法院的這個公聽會他有指出三件事就是當時世代的IRB在審查的時候有三件事當時這個計畫主持人 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
533.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是隱密沒有揭露的第一個這個研究的對象當時計畫主持人來說明的時候沒有說是私生關係第二個當時來說明的時候也沒有提到這就是台師大女足隊所以不知道或當時IRB委員會不知道這是學生第三個當時來審查的時候是在計畫裡面是說會請有執照而且有經驗的人進行抽血 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
539.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
551.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 所以這三件事情當時是隱匿沒有揭露也就是說其實當時在計劃送審的時候這 部長這可以說是用造假的資料來審查是不是這麼說我想至少他提供的資料審查委員既然可以不知道這是學生不知道這是女組隊隱匿就是造假嘛好 那我們現在確認這個事實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
當時計畫主持人用造假的資料來送審我們依照現行法規可以怎麼處置報告委員這個分兩個部分它違反人體研究法的部分我們已經裁發了對我們教育部裁發了那第二個部分如果真的有涉及到造假或者是研究經費的一個流向的問題我們也移送檢調在申辦當中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 那這個 因為目前校方有開教評會是針對周太英教授 教練來處置所以已經解聘了那關於這個計畫主持人陳中慶教授有沒有開教評會 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
報告委員 學校有召開過教評會但是部裡頭在這邊也是認為說他們沒有就整個違反人體研究的部分想與究責所以我們在七月份的時候有退回學校請他們兩週內重審完畢之後再把結果報到部裡頭來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以這個是幾號之前?台師大目前也正在開教評會當中正在開教評會按照教師法22條解聘或不續聘的條件包含了行為違反相關法規經查證屬實這個要召開教評會這個計畫違反人體研究法有沒有屬實? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
655.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
報委員他確實違反了人體研究法當時IRB來送繩的時候使用了造假的資料目前已知有沒有屬實這個部分我們都確認說屬實這兩點都是已知屬實的雖然我們教育部這個IRB調查小組最終的這個結果還沒出來但這兩點都已知屬實所以按照教師法這個接下來的教評會我希望能夠公允的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
686.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
693.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
來處置那教育部要來關心後續這教評會是校方開的嘛但我們要來關心後續不能夠以制度來去掩蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
716.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
行為的疏失IRB的程序要檢討但是按照我們現行的我們有教師法我們有教評會程序你都已知違法的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
738.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個IRB的後續的處置跟這一個教師是否適任就是兩件事情所以我希望教育部後續要持續的來關注希望讓我們國人對於台灣的高教可以重拾信心部長可不可以一定好 謝謝部長謝謝吳佩儀委員 |