| IVOD_ID |
163238 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163238 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T10:42:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T10:56:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c62363807c51931515570213a0645a397e529aa6299d4c2221a54940ed0e9b379af2e74e98a9ffb35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:42:08 - 10:56:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席好 我先請我們洪森漢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.327 |
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41.241 |
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邱院長部長好那我想請問一下這次台電員工搶修電力設備這個設施遭受電擊的公安這個職災的事件你們職安署南區職安中心昨天有去現場做這個勞檢發現現場個人防護具確實沒有使用沒有戴絕緣手套所以遭電擊是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.838 |
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跟委員報告這個案子我們南區中心接獲報告以後有去釐清整個災害發生的原因那初步來看的話在台電公司平常在做這樣的一個維修作業或這個修復作業基本上它有完整的一個SOP但是在因為在這次的一個緊急搶救的時候可能在聯繫協調的問題造成這個我們這個離災勞工他誤以為這條線是已經斷電了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以他沒有佩戴這個防護手套所以這樣子聽起來是誰的責任基本上在治安法上面就是因為你們昨天的報告你們昨天的報告是說聽起來很好聽但是就是說一套看起來很客觀很溫和的話術來暗示的是勞工自己沒做好防護我覺得這個對於我們的基層的這個台電員工這個不太公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.699 |
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109.988 |
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那當然我們沒有認為是歸咎於勞工個人的問題那這樣最好 當然啦我們當然都是發聲的我們當然現在是解決問題當然我覺得對受傷這個台電員工我們要更加的這個先照顧人家還在醫院那這個時候當然我覺得剛剛你講對了那個潰線他為什麼會有電那條線為什麼沒有斷電有去查了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
149.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟委員報告 初步了解原因是這樣那細部我們還要繼續做職業階段的調查那什麼時候才能夠出來你現在不出來因為南部現在幾乎還在搶救對不對所以你這個原因不找出來那未來是不是還是不能保證不會發生這樣的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那個邱委員當然我們都希望不過的確現在很多的部分還在還在調查中但是我想還是很清楚我們希望台電在這個當然替我們這麼多的南部的災民盡快的來救災這部分我們很謝謝可是也希望台電也要同時也能夠把這個作業的安全給做好我想這這個是南部現在很清楚的立場是不是因為我在想是不是因為台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
192.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他因為要搶著給我們這些民眾用電所以這個狀況造成了今天這個結果沒有做好一個SOP的一個流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我想現在當然台電跟台電的員工們現在當然很著急著想要完成來協助我們災民這個恢復原本生活的這樣的任務我覺得他們這個心是很著急的我知道因為大家受災戶這些他們當然很著急當然我知道台電也很認真可是我覺得在做這個事情的時候我們該做的防護該做的一定的這個流程還是要做不能因為急著 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
要幫這個我們這個受災戶復電然後用我們台電員工的這個生命去來換電這個是非常非常不得當然我們希望能夠兼顧近早的復電我想這是全民的希望包括南部我們災民的希望但也希望台電同時要把這個作業安全給兼顧給做好我覺得這個部分的兼顧還有一點我要提醒就是說這些台電員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
或者是外包員工連續搶修這麼多天在這個搶修期間是不是出現工時嚴重超標的問題是這個最長工時是多少我希望你們勞檢局你去查了沒有我想我們有來查其實就是他其實會有一個因為天災等等的原因所以或突發狀況所以這個需要做相關的通報那就我們目前去查查台電公司是有針對我們的地方政府有來做通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好啦我希望大家同理心啦好不好好那請部長休息我們請這個邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
委員好部長好總統府有健康台灣推動委員會的副召集人陳志宏教授在衡量醫療體系氣候韌性的推薦序就說了台灣的醫療體系在面對極端氣候的時候有很多先天體質不良的問題包括第一個急救跟慢性疾病照顧很容易中斷病人要去醫院要轉診 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
311.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
碰到災難他就會直接卡死那第二個資源調度不容易尤其是偏鄉根本等不到人也等不到設備像疫苗血液這些冷鏈保存的物資一旦斷電物流停擺就會立刻出現問題那第四個最嚴重的是人力我們的醫護早就過勞了還要在災後連續上陣根本撐不久 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這就讓我不得不再問一次我們賴清德總統在2023年選舉期間明明公開承認兩年內要完成三班護病筆這個入法但是你們您在7月14日接受訪問的時候說醫院人力還不夠先入法會引起不一樣的做法所以我們慢慢鼓勵慢慢努力所以我想請部長我要你講清楚這兩年內的承諾會實施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
380.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好 謝謝委員的推行 直出我們台灣醫療體系有很多困境也感謝委員一直關心 怎麼樣來改善這個部分我們在說為什麼會推動 健康台灣這樣的一個計畫那個不用講了 你就直接問我說 兩年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
裡面一個很重要的就是我們增加賦予的人力其中一個就是三班互併比的一個鼓勵我們現在的制度是鼓勵先行隨著在標竿學習在法治化不然我還是不要繞那麼遠我就問一句嘛那兩年內有辦法做到嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員報告,這個因為要牽涉到我們,要人力夠如果是你的兩年內是從什麼時候算?明年的520能做到嗎?所以你現在...總統已經指示一個政策的方向我聽你講,你也不敢保證明年的520以前會入法,對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為要讓他那個議院 因為議院還是要讓他慢慢的那總統說的兩年內是他是認真的還是隨便講講來騙選票用的這個政策是非常重要的一個方向我們也全力以赴我知道你們都在努力啦 可是我問的時候我要問的是這句話有沒有兌現的一個機制 比如說時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
進度 你們有自己給定自己一個標準嗎一個時程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為我們要定標準是比較容易但是要如何讓他真的順利來進行不影響到人民照顧的一個健康的權利包括很多噴箱今天圖千祺委員也提到我們賴總統說他兩年內要入法那如果做不到這樣壓時間隨便承諾還是您認為總統的政見不重要我們一定一步一步的往總統的政見來落實來實現但是他講兩年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那時間上我們會把它做得更周延因為如果只是鼓勵沒有進度這就不叫政見一定有進度現在是基層護理師他希望有一個答案那你不敢正面回答他們不敢回答那兩年內三班護病比入法做得到還是做不到我就知道這個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
516.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們會努力啊,而且是真的一直在努力從現在的鼓勵,剛剛也有報告過了那現在有進度嗎?我先講,你有進度嗎?比如說我們經過這陣子的努力,我們的醫學中心可以達到六成已經達到三萬富分比你剛剛講的是,你是發用獎勵的方式嘛,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那這個獎勵方式就是讓醫院你發了5.47億這個獎勵金沒有錯但錄法進度這個幾乎是零我知道衛福部花了很多的心力那推出這個獎勵機制鼓勵醫院改善排班但是一個很核心的問題如果今天獎金可以取代錄法那當初我們就不應該這個要講說這個兩年內要錄法那我知道這一次有363家醫院拿到三班護病費的獎勵金 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
597.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但這個獎勵金的門檻有兩班達標就可以領我知道你們的規定是這樣那所以我想了解過去過去一年裡三班都都達標的護病比等於是完整達標的醫院有幾家三班不是兩班這個請市長回答一下我們有三個層級那這個醫學中心醫學中心大概可以達到五層以上那區醫院大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
599.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
621.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
35%到45%之間那地區醫院的話大概可以85%到90%之間可以達到好那另外有27家沒有領到我看了一下其中有5家是我們不立院這是不是代表我們直接在管理的不立院我們都沒有辦法來配合你們有去了解這個原因嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
622.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
645.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有,那部立院因為他比較有特別的任務,包括社區各方面的人力所以他的護理人力會比較需要配合社區整個國家的政策所以他在達標上會比較辛苦一點,但是這個我們都會給予支持來 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
646.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
669.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為我還要再問一個就是說你這些獎勵發下去之後我剛剛有聽到你說讓各醫院自己去調配去發放那我更關心的是我們護理留言到底有沒有領到這個獎金他們到底領到了多少他們領到現在直接領到的當然就是月班獎獎勵金你確定他們都拿到嗎這個沒有問題這個如果沒有拿到就 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
697.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個結論沒有問題不要變成口號啦因為這個問題其實是非常嚴重的我們台灣的現在的狀況醫療狀況真的真的是非常緊急隨時都可能爆掉那我們不希望我們希望好這個護理人員能夠好好留下來工作那給他們一個更好的一個待遇這個我覺得衛福部要趕快來想辦法我們有十二個措施一直在改善這樣的一個對我還是要那句話我希望部長剛剛講的入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
700.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
701.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你的任內會不會 我們賴總統任內會不會完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
704.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
732.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你直接給我答案就好我想應該可以法制化可以嗎?會達到法制化你能答應嗎?你能保證嗎?我們會全力以赴好謝謝最後一個再問一下我們賴清德總統說要打造健康台灣結果現在充滿漏洞的實驗地域先蓋好這個地域就是你們每一個部會親手施工集體完成的成果那台大女這個女卒台視大女卒被強迫抽血做研究那 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
733.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
748.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們衛福部指出教育部要依法辦理那我覺得很奇怪就是人體研究法的機關不是在衛福部嗎你們林靜儀次長又在臉書撇清衛福部責任你們都是醫生你看不出來這抽血行為是有問題的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我想這個部分早上也有報告跟大家報告過第一個就是說如果以人體研究法那當然是衛護部的那個主管那至於人體研究的一個就是他的監督、實行或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
783.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可是他這樣就不是違反你們的規定嗎是由研究機構的事業主管機關所以學術機關你是不管的他們要怎麼玩都可以啊我們是尊重事業主管機關去做調查那你立這個法是幹什麼呢我們這個法就是製造一個就是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
785.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那個法然後我們讓 定了相關的規定然後讓世衛主管機關他們去執行我們院長都說 衛福部要負該負的責任那你覺得衛福部接下來要做什麼好 我們第一個我們當然學生的人權跟社教權保護這是絕對不容模糊的第二個我們讓路之急就是趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
810.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
820.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
把學生的受教權能夠看他能不能保護第二個就是他們的身心狀況我們也啟動了心理健康方面的系統那台灣現在到底還有多少這種人體實驗人體實驗是沒有在醫療場所進行的有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
849.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個可能要去了解一下對我覺得部長這是你的職務這是你的業務範圍所以我覺得你應該要全權掌握吧因為這樣的實驗會觸犯的法律包含我唸給你聽醫師法、護理人員法、人體研究法、感染管制相關法規、傳染病防治這些都是衛福部主管的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
850.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以不要把這個事情都推給教育部我們現在是主持人他有沒有按照當時你去嚴格執行如果有牽涉到相關的法令我們當然一定嚴格執行謝謝部長謝謝 |