| IVOD_ID |
163189 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163189 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T11:23:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T11:44:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1404c3f0fc5b9857f4a36c44ffa30ac27e529aa6299d4c223c22ec92c82f31c3d506cc573e17a0395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:23:17 - 11:44:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝主席 有請邱部長 |
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5.356 |
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部長今天召委的專題報告是這個前半段是因為嚴重災情緊急這個重大事件醫療院所承擔的這個救護量人的困境還有包含這近年來我們台灣人民很關心的這個議題就是如果台灣發生緊急狀況時不論藥醫材或是這個專業人力到底夠不夠那部長先看這個表格這是近五年的護理人員的總職業率 |
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34.523 |
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56.576 |
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我們是在下降中,109是63.26、113是62.7也就是109年的時候爆發了COVID-19然後整個疫情延燒三年之久,當時醫護人力就已經是短缺的狀況那現在如果又遇到緊急狀況,我們到底有沒有足夠的醫護人力 |
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58.557 |
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83.167 |
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因為當時很多縣市有發出退職醫務召集令然後召集退職的醫務人員回到現場支援像快篩站、社區篩檢站等等我們在回憶過去的時候在新冠這段期間臨時靠這樣做法徵召來的退職的護理人員當時是非常緊急又很臨時所以如果台灣又面臨到這樣一個狀況再發生 |
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我們需要這些退職的醫護人員回到這個第一線的時候來做服務我們是不是有整體的規劃好的一個SOP可供來做執行也保障這些退職然後再重回職場的醫護人員來配合政府做一些檢查應變的這些狀況有嗎 |
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104.286 |
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124.755 |
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有,好,包括劉昭偉,兩個問題回答,第一個就是在護理人員的成長,今年我們在我們的努力,政府的努力之下,有62.7變成63,所以有增加了3000多左右,3500多的護理人員從去年同期,但這中間有1700多是所以又回到63點多了 |
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第二個就是非常感謝召委提醒到這個退職醫護召集令這件事情那當時在疫情期間的確我們召組了護理臺灣隊那當時有一千一萬五百個人報名當然很多其實都是自公性質的,就說我已經在對你服務 |
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147.979 |
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那我願意來投入,譬如說幫你打針啊,幫你做篩檢等等的那其中其實裡面有25,真正是25%是沒有職業的啦其他還是有工作,就好像我有時候去診所你們為什麼台北市醫生說一副這樣好,你為什麼沒有來召集我,我願意去篩檢所以當時真的醫護都很願意來投入,這是一股很好的力量 |
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172.805 |
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200.804 |
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所以為了維護這樣的社會利益本部在我們衛福部有建立一個互助醫平臺那這裡面有超過十二萬個護理人員註冊在這裡那我們也給他繼續的教育那也擴大這個平臺所以委員所隨行的這件事情我們是一直繼續在做而且將來應該不管是在平時或者是有特別狀況的時候我覺得都應該啟動這些人力來幫忙 |
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203.644 |
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部長講的就是當時應變的狀況,基本上我們也感受到溫暖,也感受到衛福部的召集,大家都願意從75%的可能在其他比較不是很嚴重的地方的職業的游人員,他也願意過來接受政府的調動,來做支持,另外25%他是已經沒有在職業中的,他也願意再回來,這個比例應該有點少,75%對25%, |
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232.117 |
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253.848 |
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這可能你們要再了解一下啦當然不用在這邊再回答我這個問題那第二個我還是必須講不管這個75%從北地方過來支援還是25%已經沒有支援一段時間的他又要受到政府這樣的趕招又要再投入這樣一個緊急的應變狀況那我們都應該鼓勵跟應該肯定但是相對的他的安全的保障政府也必須要給他 |
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255.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有訂出這樣的SOP嗎?相關的所有要點嗎?相關的勞動條件的這個保障這個基本勞動的這個保障然後另外一個就是假設他做什麼工作之前我們都確定他有經過教育訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
280.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
還有職業 職業你都會先做我先跟委員說一下就是說你剛才提的是這個COVID的時間我們做了一個護理臺灣隊那當時護理人員確實展現了他的社會力那我們希望這件事情可以持續所以我們就在設立一個叫做護理社群平臺 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那事實上護理人員是這樣假設我們的統計是這樣那如果離開醫院兩年後你讓他再回到醫院等於不可能所以不是只是退休的人而是說假設他要離職或退休的人我們怎麼讓他維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
維持在這個人才庫裡面這是重點你的75%跟25%就被你這樣的趕招來投入、分配、支援各個地區的醫療的系統裡面那他回來的之前他應該要多少時間來做一個培訓或是怎麼樣我們就以任務導向譬如說當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
343.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
要做這個疫苗注射隊那我們就會開始招募各家醫院他的需求是什麼然後我們就會開始辦訓練然後做媒合這個時間那每個人就會填說他的時間是可以的時間是什麼那我們確定他有經過訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
360.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後到哪裡去集合然後到哪裡去做報導所以妳要對我表達就是說沒有一個統一的一個時間啦是不是沒有的時間沒有嘛但是妳的培訓的時間應該是一致啊妳要沒有醫院那個會有時間的落差我很清楚嘛我是在請教妳培訓的時間嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在那個之前我們就啟動那個培訓對啦 時間啦一天、兩天、三天、一天、四天、三天、八天、七天、八天那培訓就有看疫苗注射嘛那一個是那個檢查就看他的任務有一個是居家隔離的時候的那個關閥那你可以直接有當跟我的會報告嘛那注射的是要培訓多久那什麼是要當作幾小時嘛那什麼又是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
396.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
又是1天又2天嗎市長你就是沒有做啦你有做你就可以直接打電話回答我了嘛沒有啊 不然你就直接跟我們講1 2 3 舉1 3個注射疫苗 做什麼樣 快篩 還是什麼你再強調一次好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
居家醫療的大概是一天我們一天就集合那那個感控的我們是透過那個視訊視訊的這個教學視訊教學的培訓多久那個視訊教學的培訓大概也是大概一天左右你怎麼都會叫做大概你怎麼都會叫做大概你現在答問我全部都叫大概你會不會叫做大概的趙復師的師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
451.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
趙律師大概 蔡市長醫療 不能讓你這樣回答吧 你的專業我是非常慶祝的嘛 對不對他們這個一段時間 75%已經沒有你這個職業剛剛市長是講6小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
463.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
什麼樣的六小時?不然你每天要跟我請坐,是多少個行目六小時?感控的方面六小時那其他的大致上舉兩個就好了,大致上是幾小時?居家醫療的我們是居家醫療關懷我們是做那個指引的訓練,那那個講解也是早上講解然後下午講解但是早上兩個小時下午是兩個小時這樣也是大概嘛所以居家關懷也是大概嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
520.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
醫療可以講大概醫療的培訓、醫護的培訓可以講大概上午兩節、下午兩節啦不然這樣啦,我印象中平均是一週上班、上課一週培訓是一週,沒有好,沒有代表照護師沒有不代表其他的這個公部門的單位沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你要不要把這些東西弄出來盤整清楚然後做一個統一的規範那相對的對這些願意受到政府趕招回來支援在第一現場的這些醫護人員我們有相關的這些要點作業的要點可以保障他們然後也把這樣的這個草案可以訂出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 我們來處理我就要求這個而已嘛好 沒問題之前沒有做啦這個都必須要做而且很重要就因為之前沒有做現在我們就落實來做嘛一個星期啦可以吧好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
577.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那第二件事也是這樣,現在除了緊急狀況,徵召退職的醫護人員能力之外,還需要正本期,也就是正式現在疫病的這樣的一個環境嘛,然後衛福部會改善護理人力的這個護客,從去年3月就已經推動急性一般病患的這個三班的達標, |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
579.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
605.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
獎勵嘛然後就是國立醫院要補儲這個護理人力那三班護病比達標的獎勵我想大家都很清楚嘛第一個階段就是2024的3月到2025的6月嘛其實就是上個月就已經結束了啦那你第二階段什麼時候開始7月就開始第二個階段就是一定要三班達標才獎勵你們第一個階段有做相關的檢討然後調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
一些這樣的一個計畫然後包含未達標該如何去做處理然後有達標的當然就獎勵嘛對不對那未達標要怎麼處理只要三班白班小業大業中有兩班達標衛護部及醫個院申報住院護理會額外給予3%加成獎勵對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
631.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
637.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有錯吧 好如果三班全數達標 加成提高至7%對不對謝謝衛部 謝謝部長 謝謝司長衛達標你怎麼處理衛達標怎麼處理有達標我們獎勵嘛對 沒達標的勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
649.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
675.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
比如說第一階段目前沒有達標的是27家我沒有問你幾家你直接跟我講怎麼處理你針對我的問題答我好不好那每一家的特殊性都不一樣我沒有在問你特殊性啊我就請教你未達標你們怎麼處理啊你要特殊性要去特殊處理我尊重嘛那你要不要講說他們達標有達到這樣如果有特殊性你要不要另外再加成 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
677.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
693.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
3比7啊 那特殊性要不要3比7比10你才跟我講說你要懲處的是有特殊性啊我們要公平啊 我們要一視同仁啊 該獎勵獎勵啊我的邏輯很簡單嘛 我把事情講清楚嘛 不對你也是一個很聰明的人為什麼沒有懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
709.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為現在先鼓勵你現在是跟你這個額外加3%跟這個加成這個三班落全數達標加成提高到7%是針對醫院喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
712.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
738.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對不對 醫院醫院沒有達標有達標你獎勵他嘛 對不對沒有達標就是公告然後去了解他的內容剛剛其實我們也有分析那裡面有不少是地區醫院那地區醫院他們就沒有報 巴加斯地區醫院就沒有把書記報上來嘛沒有把住院信報上來他們怎麼敢 你知道當部長咧他們怎麼敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
740.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
753.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
他們怎麼敢不報上來?他們是有多大的膽子不報上來?有報上來,但是沒有...沒有住院病人有些地區醫院應該是有的沒有住院病人,地區醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
769.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我問這件問題是這樣,全國372家醫院,311家都有達標,大致上,對不對?那有53家,不是你講的,不是剛剛市長講的,29家27家是113年的3月到今年的3月,那這個是4月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
789.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
803.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好現在第一階段已經結束了你再跟我講113年的三月不是好那你現在再跟我補充是114年的四月你現在是要用哪一個段程來跟我來做這個說明跟委會做說明蔡大愷市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
808.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
833.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
三月以前的是27家那四月...董事長我給你看其實很簡單的啦你先不要回答啦你不要急著回答你就讓市長回答嘛你看啦你看嘛你剛才講的地區醫院嘛對不對黃色的字那叫什麼醫院?部立鋪子醫院那是地區醫院對不對還有育理醫院嘛對不對那區域醫院呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
835.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
台南便衣沒有啦 剛才那兩支你也唸過喔 那是地道中心 慈濟醫院不是啦 不是啦 紅衣的保安你唸過 你有沒有讀過 雙河醫院沒有啦 那是醫藥中心嘛 對不對 我說區醫院啦區醫院的部立台南醫院喔對喔 部立嘛 再來部立台北醫院 再來部立苗栗醫院 再來部立鳳梨醫院 部立彰化醫院 部立南投醫院你們的部立實在很清 通通沒有打標 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
859.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
862.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
請教你還沒抓到這我就去討論這我就去討論這我就去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
875.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
882.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
請蔡大蓋市長再說明一下 部長你休息一下蔡大蓋市長要提供的是113年未達標的然後他現在講的又再補充114年未達標的在四月前 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
896.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
920.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
報告委員因為我們大部分的醫院都在偏鄉離島然後我們為了 台南在偏鄉離島台北在偏鄉離島彰化在偏鄉離島我們為了不要讓 你要不要修正你剛剛講的偏鄉離島這幾句話因為你們衛島三幫互併比的醫院我剛剛列的這幾家不利醫院它不是偏鄉離島的醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
923.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
935.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這幾家醫院你要不要先修正你剛剛對我回應的第一句話我們再有辦法繼續討論下去不然就請你可以回到你的座位上因為我也沒有邀請你上來有幾個原因第一個原因你要不要先修正你剛剛講的第一句話不修正請你回到你的座位下修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
942.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
969.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
另外是因為我們為了怕急著擁塞比如說台北醫院在北部有很多醫學中心他們可能為了護病比的關係可能有關床那我們不要造成人球事件所以其實他們的床是沒有關完全沒有關就維持開放所以他們會讓護理人員有很多很好的福利所以那些護理人員願意撐著讓讓民眾享受比較好的醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
970.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
987.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
而不是用關船來解決這個護病筆的問題我以為問你到後面這個問題你只要這麼講你不關船你就是把人力補足啊就這樣而已啊我們會努力補足人力我現在要給部長看的是部長醫護會還是照護師他們可以幫你講到什麼程度幫你們說明到什麼程度其實都很困難啦今天三班護病筆未達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1001.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1020.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
不立院這麼多家,這個數字顯示出來,紅字就是不及格嘛難看,不好看所以我請長長講說底下的幕僚單位到底在做什麼事情請部長要小心啦我們會去加油你當然要加油,你自己加油也不夠你又加到九百也不夠這不是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1027.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1038.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
對 人人百人三百幾斤都要到達標提供這個獎勵的加成對醫院喔3% 7%那我才會請教你啊 那未達標你怎麼處理啊不管什麼原因啦 你怎麼處理嘛有獎就有成啊很簡單的邏輯問題嘛博律有請你索賀好不好 一禮拜一禮拜檢討報告都去做修正嘛 好不好最好齁 最好 台灣那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1056.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1077.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
再次強調這筆款項是專管專用必須用於護理人員然後針對不同班設計流論方案醫院需要在院內公開分配方式並向護理人員說明清楚對不對 沒有錯嘛臺灣護理產業公會跟你講說你不要這樣做要不然把獎勵金直接報給病人由醫院統籌運用 政府不干預喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1082.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1101.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們獎勵金有兩類我當然知道獎勵金有兩類啊我再跟你講哪一類你很清楚啊你不要再跳來跳去啊因為每一家醫院他拿到的獎勵金都不一樣所以這個是我們的規範每一家醫院拿到的獎勵金當然不一樣啊但是你是造物師你只有同一個規範啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1102.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1122.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有啊 我們沒有規範啊你規範怎麼可以說你不管我們沒有說不管啊你怎麼管我們是公告啊 然後我們有調查他們會回覆啊公告完之後他違反咧他違反你成功的公告規定你怎麼處理啊你怎麼處理啊就收回啊就收回啊怎麼收回你到目前為止收回幾筆我已照你們公告的規範去執行你到目前為止你收回幾筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1131.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1134.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你收回幾筆 你跟委員說明 你收回幾筆你連大概收回一筆都沒有啦你好有意思在這邊講大放厥詞我尊重你們 你們把這些委員當成在委員會的意思在呼嚨亂七八糟到幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1164.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1193.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
護理人員一直依賴的,一直對於期待的,是非常高尤其對部長,不然你怎麼對台南人愛所以對培養管理,對護理人員照顧,你都比什麼更清楚你的制度有問題,獎勵沒有人去挑戰你但是為達標,你的部理醫院比例這麼高然後你自己講得這麼清楚,專款專用今天醫院,你給了他的獎勵,他沒有專款專用 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1194.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1201.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你沒有任何的方式可以做處理你還好意思在這個委員會跟我講說 收回你收回哪一筆的啊報告委員 我們一定堅決來執行你這個委員是好意給你賠償你們做的這個問題 這案子繼續在出現對你有好報是好事嗎對你有好報 要帶領全國的醫護人員在每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1221.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1244.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
他盡心盡責 負責了職業的場所這是一件好事嗎絕對不好嘛 對不對那我們事務上有一些問題政策上有一些問題我們就該修啊 該面對啊你沒有做到沒有做到事情 你怎麼好意思在公開在這邊講然後問題 你一直用偏鄉醫療來搪塞我你當初今天這個委員會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1250.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1260.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
下禮拜看蘇貞昊要不要排考察啦全部的不利我們全部走一次啦好 施委員我們會努力 謝謝這個我要補充一下就是 |