| IVOD_ID |
163176 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163176 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T09:21:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T09:32:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1404c3f0fc5b9857c5625b3fe2f6ea217e529aa6299d4c225af1ef4f9e86959b3f69a6de72969f305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:21:43 - 09:32:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長今天有幾個議題跟您討論但是我還是要先跟您談討就是老師拿分數當武器逼迫學生交出血液這件事情那因為訊息一直進來昨天我看到有一位受害者學生姓簡他出來說他忍耐了四年 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.446 |
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那跟同一篇報導說市政政見行為已經進行了7年所以我認為是這個學校在包庇教育部在裝睡那衛福部讓你選一個是裝聾還是裝傻你講一下這麼久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.861 |
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49.783 |
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這不只是倫理問題他涉及醫療法這個涉及醫療法還有不只倫理問題醫療法跟人體研究法 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.239 |
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64.202 |
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是我們是法的主管機關然後這個部分從研究的一個督導考核以及調查其實是世衛主管機關但是有涉及醫療法部林次長他又對接受媒體採訪的時候他有說就是監察院在調查那教育部等等也是在跟學校在調查然後等這個之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
83.313 |
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88.102 |
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衛福部再來做一次處理但是教育部已經完成了他有行政處罰都已經裁定了我就不再多談那請問衛福部現在要處理了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
94.833 |
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112.044 |
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是的我想教育部以及像地檢署也做資料調查所以這個部分我們可以期盼能夠調查得更清楚那衛福部現在要做什麼我們還是要堅持學生的人權以及學生的受教權的傷害絕對不能受到傷害所以如果以這樣的事件來講我們當然整體都要來檢討整個機制是不是能夠更加的落實所以我們第一個我們會把 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.012 |
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131.541 |
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針對受害的學生我們昨天也開過相關的會議準備要來保護他的身心健康你要積極在做這件事對 身心健康我們會提供對 我意思就是說先最急的是趕快照顧這些受害的家屬以及他們的受教權還有他們的家庭因為這樣的衝刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.113 |
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然後我們會去跟相關的機關來檢討整個是不是能夠在連結方面更加的落實因為那個市長在這裡但是那個16號之後醫師是副市長劉副市長他在回答受訪時而講他當時認為研究中的抽血不是醫療行為也不是醫療輔助行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
161.644 |
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但是因為他有提到說因為有關受試者的保護他覺得執行這個還是要醫護人員或學校的醫護人員或是醫檢室來執行部長我想問你同意嗎研究中的抽血不是醫療行為或不是醫療輔助行為您同意這個說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
175.576 |
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202.474 |
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我想我們一切都要按照醫師法規你同不同意這個說法他說出來了副司長說出來了所以我就從國衛院喔他有關這個倫理委員會的審查紀錄中找到了一個我隨機去找了一個需要抽血的試驗那國衛院的這個倫理委員會有講到說抽血就是屬於醫療行為醫療輔助行為必須由具有執照的醫護人員來執行而且需要在醫療場所那即便是研究案也不例外所以我想請問部長是醫事師副司長的說法錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.916 |
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217.042 |
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還是國務院說法有誤呢?我想在醫療醫療法這個部分當然是很清楚他抽選是不是醫療行為或醫療輔助行為?因為這個部分不是在醫療及格的執行所以我們要了解一下醫療行為還是醫療輔助行為?他說都不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
227.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
246.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我覺得這件事情要拆開兩個層面來講因為今天是研究案裡面他我覺得從頭到尾這件事情最大的問題會在IRB到底通過了什麼這個學校到底那個執行的PA到底做了什麼這問題的癥結在這邊這是第一件事第二件事情我們家副市長講的是最好的照顧會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
272.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我覺得這兩塊是不一樣的最好的照顧在Pollocall裡面最好是醫事人員的這件事情可是研究案裡面在這個案子我們才會覺得剛剛委員垂詢說很像這邊我們衛福部要做什麼其實是每一個事業目的主管機關到底在他們所委託的兩位都是醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
273.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
290.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為這個抽血有一點雖然說不是傷害但是這個侵入性的一個做法啦所以我希望衛婦是不是以後對於相關的這個研究案要設有這個查核跟檢舉機制可以嗎這我們會督導各個事業目的主管機關去做把那個標準拉一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
290.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
319.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為現在審查出去的東西每一個事業目的主管機關都有委託審查會照價值還嚴重喔好好就是說請你們繼續就是要有一些監察跟後來的集合制度好謝謝 部長那個衛福部推動三班互併筆啦我知道你最怕這幾位啦月底他首度撥付了獎勵金你知道他總共撥付了多少錢嗎到現在是5.96億已經到好我的好謝謝那既然放了獎勵金表示有改善喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
319.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
333.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是不是?部長這樣有改善嗎?你錢都搬下去了,有沒有改善?我們這個三半負分比的獎勵金花下去以後也要求他要按照KPI來做整個用在護理醫生的狀況我這幾天上網去查,結果發現不管是健保署的網站或是照護師的網站上都查不到今年上半年的三半負分比資料現在都77萬了,那為什麼資料還沒有上線呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
348.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
361.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
怕規避監督嗎 沒有資料耶沒有 我們廠長在這邊也跟大家報告過我們整個醫學中心已經到達三百戶病予合乎的已經六成了就是上網 你上網沒有資料 以前有 現在斷掉了市長報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
383.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們目前的資料是由醫院做填寶我知道醫院 但是你們要催促現在目前健保署的BPM是公告到12月沒有錯但是一到近年啦 已經半年啦 你沒有資料就是沒有資料好嗎沒有資料就是沒有資料最近就漏出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
386.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
389.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那部長您本身是資歷豐厚的醫師我想請問部長如果現在要你去值班OK嗎?只要人民健康需要我上山下海都可以你可以值班喔那我請問昭偉昭偉您現在可以去值班嗎?職業班嗎?昭偉可能常常在值班 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
還是有時候守第一線不過體力是有差但是你看這張圖因為明年8月要進來兒科這個是2月26日的報導對外招聘幾乎乏人問津某些中南部的醫學中心55到60歲的主治醫師甚至必須在醫院睡覺值班就很類似能力當然不是做醫師但是他的行為必須像住院醫師一樣的來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
448.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那現在就很多組織醫師可能去招不到人嘛斷崖嘛就是說整個這個是人力斷崖那很多組織醫師去開業或是說林聽醫師覺得說少子化他覺得未來就是夕陽工業他就沒有投入這個領域嘛那健保我知道之前健保署也會編列預算想要調高這個極重難科別的支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
451.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那144也有在監測專科醫師的人數那我可不可以請報告一下就是健保署這邊我想知道這個策略有沒有成功呢你調高致富標準有沒有增加那144的監測指標是什麼有沒有如所欲起 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
486.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我先跟委員做報告 再請兩位署長跟市長報告一下第一個就是說我們從健保署當然加成他的給護不管是在兒科的診察會 譬如說我們加成3%那先增加一個他給醫院有一定的力量嘛 量能嘛那在醫事室方面也用兒童的一個照護的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
487.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
501.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你預期什麼時候會看到效果?其實讓這樣的我們會看到其實很多醫院都針對集中男患症真的有加薪啦那自己加薪以後是不是外界的環境這個牽涉到比較複雜我們當然有在督導因為沒有兒科醫師就不得了了嘛對當然我們今年的領證人數還到達123人是每年的榮爾是300人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
518.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那沒有心血進來啊 人家都七歲都還要值班啊我們當然一定要督導整個進來的心血署長你有沒有資料 你這樣發有沒有你monitor你在監測 還是司長你在監測有沒有進步這幾個補助的科有沒有進步 有沒有進步就簡單回答一下跟委員報告 確實這個兒科的困境現在是開業的比較多 留在醫院的比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
535.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
539.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以我們現在努力的目標是如何讓兒科醫師留在醫院請你繼續往這個方向去走好嗎那部長我還在請教你醫師加班費一加班降低所得稅這很多人期待但是他們覺得有可能是因為看得到吃不到為什麼呢因為醫師大家都認為他是責任制所以對加班的這個定義是模糊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
554.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
558.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那譬如外科醫師手術隨時後他去寫報告那算不算在工作通訊軟體這麼發達那醫師在回覆這個護理站的訊息或家屬訊息算不算PGY算不算等等等等那財政部今天是來謝次長我有看到這個您一邊上來我一邊談我有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
572.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
598.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
複稅署在新聞上回應說相關法規需要由主管機關法定就是說法定來訂定延長工作時間及規定的標準也要為服務用函式的方式去通案處理或是憲保署要修法在全民健保法醫療服務機構及管理特別局管理辦法才能夠進行跨部會的討論我希望這個財政部是不是可以更積極努力就是兩個跨部門來處理是不是盡可能如果你們要做這件事盡可能讓明年報稅的時候這個時間讓醫師就可以去試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
602.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為了留住醫院的人力 真的我覺得這個是需要來努力的做這是你們提出來的方法 試試看嘛那另外就是說比較困難科別 譬如說你們可以借清楚比如小兒科 剛剛我提到小兒科可不可以適度的拉高那個上限就是這個免稅 加班免稅的上限我們都可以來研議好 謝謝啦 您還沒有站起來我只好先離開了因為今天有安安演習謝謝主席 謝謝兩位所長 |